HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by Chuck »

zeko wrote:Concerning a possible veto override, the Senate vote on HB228 was 19 - 10. This means we need one more Yes vote to override a veto.

There were three senators who did not vote -- Frank LaRose (R) and two Democrats. If we can persuade Senator LaRose to vote Yes, we would have the veto override. Do any of you live in his district (mainly Wayne County)?

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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by Whirlwind06 »

djthomas wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:The problem now is the shockwave snafu has the potential to really screw this up (re: veto override). I'm not going to say anymore now because I don't know what possibilities there are but I will say if it's left to go into law as it is the repercussions will be substantial. Hopefully there's some method of addressing pre- or very quickly post- .
All the more reason Kasich might just sign it and really stick it to the 2A crowd. SYG is gone, cops get more privileges (private property rights are sacrosanct, except when they're not), straw purchases are illegal at the state level, AND an untold number of previously law-abiding gun loving Ohioans will be guilty of a fifth degree felony in just 90 short days.
Reading though the links I'm not making the connection. Is this the housing piece?
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by xpd54 »

Whirlwind06 wrote:
djthomas wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:The problem now is the shockwave snafu has the potential to really screw this up (re: veto override). I'm not going to say anymore now because I don't know what possibilities there are but I will say if it's left to go into law as it is the repercussions will be substantial. Hopefully there's some method of addressing pre- or very quickly post- .
All the more reason Kasich might just sign it and really stick it to the 2A crowd. SYG is gone, cops get more privileges (private property rights are sacrosanct, except when they're not), straw purchases are illegal at the state level, AND an untold number of previously law-abiding gun loving Ohioans will be guilty of a fifth degree felony in just 90 short days.
Reading though the links I'm not making the connection. Is this the housing piece?
If I had to guess he’s referring to all the Shockwave/Tac-14 owners who will now be in possession of a “dangerous ordnance” in violation of 2923.17.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by JN01 »

Once again, Lucy yanks the football away from Charlie Brown at the last second.

It is sad that the best we can hope for is some minor little tweak every two years- in spite of all the promises and comprehensive proposals. In spite of controlling the House, Senate, and Governors office.

Yet in a couple months, it will all start over again- great new bills will be introduced, only to languish for two years, and once again we will be excited to kick that ball. Once again, they will screw us.

Politicians suck.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by JustaShooter »

djthomas wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:The problem now is the shockwave snafu has the potential to really screw this up (re: veto override). I'm not going to say anymore now because I don't know what possibilities there are but I will say if it's left to go into law as it is the repercussions will be substantial. Hopefully there's some method of addressing pre- or very quickly post- .
All the more reason Kasich might just sign it and really stick it to the 2A crowd. SYG is gone, cops get more privileges (private property rights are sacrosanct, except when they're not), straw purchases are illegal at the state level, AND an untold number of previously law-abiding gun loving Ohioans will be guilty of a fifth degree felony in just 90 short days.
I believe under current law they already were - but if this becomes law there will be no doubt.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by xpd54 »

Chuck wrote:So far the list of items removed from HB 228 by the Senate:

All language concerning duty to retreat

Minor misdemeanors for victimless crimes that can only be committed by CHL holders

SBRs


What else?
I want to write to somebody
The version I read from the BFA’s website still has the promptly notification in there, it only removed the 2nd form of ID. The more I read this the more {inappropriate language} I get. The Shockwave thing had to be an EDITING error. It’s under K(7) but should have been added under L(7) instead if you look at it and use common sense. Some staffer needs fired.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by JEaton »

xpd54 wrote:The Shockwave thing had to be an EDITING error. It’s under K(7) but should have been added under L(7) instead if you look at it and use common sense. Some staffer needs fired.
Yep, looks like those sections are really similar and right back to back. Obviously cut/paste is not how you write bills.

Just like a few years ago on the red light cameras where they made it legal to run red lights until they got the emergency fix in place. With this still having 90 days to become law they can likely get a technical fix in place before it is effective. And God help the ones who would vote against the fix as they would simply be voting to outlaw a large segment of existing firearms.

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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by JustaShooter »

JEaton wrote:
xpd54 wrote:The Shockwave thing had to be an EDITING error. It’s under K(7) but should have been added under L(7) instead if you look at it and use common sense. Some staffer needs fired.
Yep, looks like those sections are really similar and right back to back. Obviously cut/paste is not how you write bills.

Just like a few years ago on the red light cameras where they made it legal to run red lights until they got the emergency fix in place. With this still having 90 days to become law they can likely get a technical fix in place before it is effective.
How exactly does a "technical fix" work? If the bill as passed was what they voted on and not a clerical error after the fact, it will take a new bill to be submitted, committee hearings in both the house and senate, signed into law, etc, right?
JEaton wrote:And God help the ones who would vote against the fix as they would simply be voting to outlaw a large segment of existing firearms.
Well no, not really - the bill as passed keeps the status quo. Shockwaves and similar are considered Dangerous Ordnance under current law and require a Dangerous Ordnance License to be legally possessed, all this bill does is make it perfectly clear that is the case.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by schmieg »

JustaShooter wrote:
JEaton wrote:
xpd54 wrote:The Shockwave thing had to be an EDITING error. It’s under K(7) but should have been added under L(7) instead if you look at it and use common sense. Some staffer needs fired.
Yep, looks like those sections are really similar and right back to back. Obviously cut/paste is not how you write bills.

Just like a few years ago on the red light cameras where they made it legal to run red lights until they got the emergency fix in place. With this still having 90 days to become law they can likely get a technical fix in place before it is effective.
How exactly does a "technical fix" work? If the bill as passed was what they voted on and not a clerical error after the fact, it will take a new bill to be submitted, committee hearings in both the house and senate, signed into law, etc, right?
JEaton wrote:And God help the ones who would vote against the fix as they would simply be voting to outlaw a large segment of existing firearms.
Well no, not really - the bill as passed keeps the status quo. Shockwaves and similar are considered Dangerous Ordnance under current law and require a Dangerous Ordnance License to be legally possessed, all this bill does is make it perfectly clear that is the case.
The problem is that BFA and others are now saying the Shockwave is legal in Ohio. Those who listen could be in for some sudden introduction to the "justice" system.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by M-Quigley »

schmieg wrote: The problem is that BFA and others are now saying the Shockwave is legal in Ohio. Those who listen could be in for some sudden introduction to the "justice" system.
Maybe they've said that in the past, IDK, but here is what they are currently saying.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/mossber ... legal-ohio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So there you have it. According to our legal analysis, the Shockwave 590 is banned in Ohio. It is NOT legal. We don't like it any more than you do. And of course, this ban won't stop any crimes or make anyone safer. But for the moment, that's the way it is.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by schmieg »

M-Quigley wrote:
schmieg wrote: The problem is that BFA and others are now saying the Shockwave is legal in Ohio. Those who listen could be in for some sudden introduction to the "justice" system.
Maybe they've said that in the past, IDK, but here is what they are currently saying.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/mossber ... legal-ohio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So there you have it. According to our legal analysis, the Shockwave 590 is banned in Ohio. It is NOT legal. We don't like it any more than you do. And of course, this ban won't stop any crimes or make anyone safer. But for the moment, that's the way it is.
Good, because they posted just the opposite on their website right after 228 passed the Senate and that was while the problem was already being discussed here.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by xpd54 »

schmieg wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:
schmieg wrote: The problem is that BFA and others are now saying the Shockwave is legal in Ohio. Those who listen could be in for some sudden introduction to the "justice" system.
Maybe they've said that in the past, IDK, but here is what they are currently saying.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/mossber ... legal-ohio" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So there you have it. According to our legal analysis, the Shockwave 590 is banned in Ohio. It is NOT legal. We don't like it any more than you do. And of course, this ban won't stop any crimes or make anyone safer. But for the moment, that's the way it is.
Good, because they posted just the opposite on their website right after 228 passed the Senate and that was while the problem was already being discussed here.
That quote from the BFA is from 2017. I don’t know anyone at the BFA, but has someone pointed out the K(7) “screw up” yet?

EDIT: Juat saw on their FB page they are aware taking steps to fix it with the LSC.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by WhyNot »

I don't own one, but, what happens to the current LAWFUL owners of the Shockwave ?

Seems if purchased LAWFULLY, there would be just compensation $$$ for losing the LAWFUL item; or grandfathered?

What has happened in past instances in Ohio for similar LAWFUL items?
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by rickt »

JustaShooter wrote:How exactly does a "technical fix" work? If the bill as passed was what they voted on and not a clerical error after the fact, it will take a new bill to be submitted, committee hearings in both the house and senate, signed into law, etc, right?
The "fix" bill JEaton is referring to blew through the General Assembly in three months:

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legisl ... GA132-HB-9

Since it was an emergency bill it took effect immediately. Hopefully they can do something similar here.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Post by bignflnut »

JN01 wrote:Once again, Lucy yanks the football away from Charlie Brown at the last second.

It is sad that the best we can hope for is some minor little tweak every two years- in spite of all the promises and comprehensive proposals. In spite of controlling the House, Senate, and Governors office.

Yet in a couple months, it will all start over again- great new bills will be introduced, only to languish for two years, and once again we will be excited to kick that ball. Once again, they will screw us.

Politicians suck.

(*points to nose*)
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