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HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidden
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:29 am
by rickt
Introduced yesterday. I haven't read the bill yet but why does this sound like the General Assembly is giving back to the cities more home rule powers to regulate firearms?
H. B. No. 373 - Representative Vitale.
Cosponsors: Representatives Antani, Becker, Brenner, Brinkman, Dean, Goodman, Johnson, Hood, Householder, Keller, Koehler, Merrin, Riedel, Seitz, Schaffer, Sprague, Thompson, Zeltwanger.
To amend sections 105.41, 123.011, 2923.122, 2923.123, and 2923.126 of the Revised Code to permit any person who holds a valid concealed handgun license to carry a concealed handgun in a courthouse, a courtroom, or a government facility of this state or in a government facility of a political subdivision of this state if the political subdivision has not enacted an ordinance or policy that prohibits a licensee from carrying a concealed handgun into the building or the court has not enacted a rule that prohibits a licensee from carrying a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance into the courthouse or courtroom.
https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legisl ... 132-HB-373" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:41 am
by djthomas
Appreciate the thought, but...
1) Like rickt said, more decimation of the idea that statewide preemption is critical to avoiding a patchwork of different rules across the state.
2) As a carrier, guessing wrong is still a felony and every place supposedly no longer off limits is still required to post a sign stating that it is off limits.
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:54 am
by WestonDon
I don't see this as progress at all.
Who's pushing this mess?
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:44 pm
by Brian D.
Morne, what in the name of Nilfheim is going on with this bill?? I see the names of a couple co-sponsors who I have had previous conversation with regarding the need to not chip away at the "sanctity" of Ohio Revised Code 9.68. (Statewide preemption of local gun laws, for those not familiar.)
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:23 pm
by Brian D.
Just spitballing here, but could this be a way for judges to let "friends of the court" with CHLs--that is, lawyers who go in front of the bench, among which would be some state Representatives and Senators--carry there when they want to?
I could see law enforcement cozying up to this as well, if they are invited to the party.
Meanwhile, too bad for us CHL- holding peasants. Bouncer..uh, bailiff...won't let us past the velvet rope.
Schmieg, think I might be on to something here?
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:28 pm
by schmieg
Brian D. wrote:Just spitballing here, but could this be a way for judges to let "friends of the court" with CHLs--that is, lawyers who go in front of the bench, among which would be some state Representatives and Senators--carry there when they want to?
I could see law enforcement cozying up to this as well, if they are invited to the party.
Meanwhile, too bad for us CHL- holding peasants. Bouncer..uh, bailiff...won't let us past the velvet rope.
Schmieg, think I might be on to something here?
It probably wouldn't be defense attorneys who would benefit from this, but prosecutors, probation officers, children's services officers, child support enforcement and the like.
I think the bill stinks.
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:32 pm
by Brian D.
Well, since many of the Reps and Sens are lawyers who do civil as well as criminal work in courtrooms , I could see them handing such a privilege out to themselves.
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:38 pm
by schmieg
Brian D. wrote:Well, since many of the Reps and Sens are lawyers who do civil as well as criminal work in courtrooms , I could see them handing such a privilege out to themselves.
They might, but they would have to do that per separate legislation unless they are really buddy buddy with the judges in each court. That isn't always the case. Besides, I think most municipalities in the State would pass an ordinance almost immediately.
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:10 pm
by Gramps
Can we find out who introduced the bill?
OOPS! I see Vitali did and he is a CCW instructor:?
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:14 pm
by djthomas
schmieg wrote:I think most municipalities in the State would pass an ordinance almost immediately.
They don't even have to do that. They can simply enact a policy which would be done with the same level of formality as recognizing the local girls' cross country team for their accomplishments.
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:03 pm
by WestonDon
Could this maybe be a backdoor attempt to let Reps and Sens carry in the statehouse and Rife tower without appearing to create an elite ruling class?
Just a thought.
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:32 pm
by JustaShooter
OK, I read the bill - and, except for the fact they failed to fix the signage issue (possibly fixable by amendment if it makes it that far), there is one *really* big improvement in the bill:
It completely removes all State of Ohio government facilities from the statutory no-carry list for those with a CHL, without any provision I can see for it to be overridden by rule or policy, etc.
Read that again. Twice.
The prohibition against carry into government facilities is re-written as follows:
(6) Any building that is a government facility of a political subdivision of this state and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility if the governing body with authority over the building has enacted an ordinance or policy that prohibits a licensee from carrying a concealed handgun into the building;.
Government facilities are redefined as:
(3) "Government facility of a political subdivision of this state" means any of the following:
(a) A building or part of a building that is owned or leased by the government of a political subdivision of this state and where employees of the government of the political subdivision regularly are present for the purpose of performing their official duties as employees of the political subdivision;
(b) The office of a deputy registrar serving pursuant to Chapter 4503. of the Revised Code that is used to perform deputy registrar functions.
schmieg or one of the other lawyerly types, am I missing something?
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:11 pm
by schmieg
Removing it from the statutory CHL list is a good thing (I haven't read the entire bill and I don't have time to do so right now), but I think you are reading more into this than is there. I would want to do some research into what constitutes a governing body with authority over the building. Is an agency of the state that has control over a building a "governing body" or does "governing body" mean that it must have legislative authority? I'm not sure. If the former, I would expect there to be a rash of policies quickly put into place to keep them off-limits; though, if your reading is correct, that may no longer be a felony.
I'll have to think this one over. That might be enough of a gimme to change my mind on it even though I don't think it will open that many more doors to us.
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:59 pm
by Brian D.
WestonDon wrote:Could this maybe be a backdoor attempt to let Reps and Sens carry in the statehouse and Rife tower without appearing to create an elite ruling class?
Just a thought.
Didn't the OGA try something like that with a previous bill, recently?
Re: HB 373: allow carry in court unless specifically forbidd
Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:51 pm
by Gramps
Brian D. wrote:WestonDon wrote:Could this maybe be a backdoor attempt to let Reps and Sens carry in the statehouse and Rife tower without appearing to create an elite ruling class?
Just a thought.
Didn't the OGA try something like that with a previous bill, recently?
What is the OGA?