HB 142 Duty to Inform

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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby Pops Fun » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:28 pm

If you want to experience the BFA hatred towards us yourself, post a comment over on Ohio Concealed Carry and tell them OFCC's the greatest gun rights organization on Ohio and why BFA doesn't want to work together on legislation with us>
I'll even take part in the discussion and see if the discussion stays or gets deleted.
Are you game, Grizz ?


Ohio Concealed carry.... I need an address.. All I see are Buckeye and OFCC.. and an Open Carry group when I google????

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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:57 am

Pops Fun wrote:
If you want to experience the BFA hatred towards us yourself, post a comment over on Ohio Concealed Carry and tell them OFCC's the greatest gun rights organization on Ohio and why BFA doesn't want to work together on legislation with us>
I'll even take part in the discussion and see if the discussion stays or gets deleted.
Are you game, Grizz ?


Ohio Concealed carry.... I need an address.. All I see are Buckeye and OFCC.. and an Open Carry group when I google????

Steve


It's a FB group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/OhioConcealCarryCCW/

I'm not sure who the admin. is over there that Justashooter is talking about though.
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:33 am

3FULLMAGS+1 wrote:It's a FB group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/OhioConcealCarryCCW/

I'm not sure who the admin. is over there that Justashooter is talking about though.

I don't know which admin it is either, but I know he's there based on the pattern I've seen. In some cases it has been pretty blatant - I share a post from the OFCC page, it gets deleted, then a little later a post is shared from BFA with the same content and it stays. Or in that most recent incident, a post pointing out and thanking OFCC for the work we've done gets deleted, but posts thanking BFA for their efforts stay. It's not hard to come to the conclusion I have that there is a pro-BFA, anti-OFCC admin.
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby bignflnut » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:45 am

If you're not taking incoming fire...you're not in the battle, right?

OFCC seems to shop for the groceries, prep and cook the food, only to have BFA plate and serve something else entirely. Why not think of this as a positive? OFCC seems to do the dirty work in the trenches, but BFA/NRA is getting the glorious "wins" what keep us from proper laws.

I know that there's Reagan's 11th Commandment, where one doesn't speak ill of people "on their side" of the issues. Embrace the differentiation. Who needs a milk-toast uniformity across the board, especially when BFA is wrong on so many issues?!
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby dustymedic » Mon Oct 30, 2017 7:11 pm

bignflnut wrote:If you're not taking incoming fire...you're not in the battle, right?

OFCC seems to shop for the groceries, prep and cook the food, only to have BFA plate and serve something else entirely. Why not think of this as a positive? OFCC seems to do the dirty work in the trenches, but BFA/NRA is getting the glorious "wins" what keep us from proper laws.

I know that there's Reagan's 11th Commandment, where one doesn't speak ill of people "on their side" of the issues. Embrace the differentiation. Who needs a milk-toast uniformity across the board, especially when BFA is wrong on so many issues?!



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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby steves 50de » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:00 pm

steves 50de wrote:Forget BFA, IMO we double our efforts on getting more members maybe have a meeting to share ideas on how to achieve a BIG increase in membership. IMO we are getting no where fast by licking the boots of BFA to like us :roll:

Focus on a new fund raising agenda. How about a friends of ofcc dinner and gun raffle. Just getting tired of what BFA thinks of us. :twisted:


How much money dose BFA have, anyone know. PM is ok we would'nt want them #issed at us, :lol:
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:05 pm

steves 50de wrote:
steves 50de wrote:Forget BFA, IMO we double our efforts on getting more members maybe have a meeting to share ideas on how to achieve a BIG increase in membership. IMO we are getting no where fast by licking the boots of BFA to like us :roll:

Focus on a new fund raising agenda. How about a friends of ofcc dinner and gun raffle. Just getting tired of what BFA thinks of us. :twisted:


How much money dose BFA have, anyone know. PM is ok we would'nt want them #issed at us, :lol:


They spend a lot but they also have a lot of big donors. I'm not sure how, but someone once pulled a public record of their donations as they have to report dollars over a certain amount to the state. They have some pretty large donors.
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby Ole_grizzly » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:35 pm

Chuck wrote:
Ole_grizzly wrote:And Chuck, what would I do? I’d start by connecting with non leadership members of BFA, develop relationships, and try to learn what information is put out to their members by their leaders in regards to upcoming legislative efforts. I’d also learn their position on ofcc, because I’m sure they feel just as strongly as you do about old problems (and current ones sadly). We may find they’re upset about something that’s not true or mis-understood. Once we have more information, we figure out any areas where we have mutual interest, spread that message to both groups, and then with some bfa membership support (or at least a familiarity) make a formal approach to their leaders proposing to join forces on a singular issue.



I do have relationships with non leadership members of Brand X. Aaron and Buckeye Dan run the shooting range where we had our machine gun shoot.
Several OFCC members went to Jon Husted's trap shoot at the same range.
That range is in my "group" of places I give my business to.
I myself have organized sidewalk rallies in Columbus with them, both leaders and nonleaders alike. If you look at their Facebook page, their cover picture is captioned:
"MAIG Rally - 5 People
BFA Anti-MAIG Rally - 100 people"
Want to guess who set that rally up?
(it wasn't a BFA rally at all,,,,)

When we reached out to the NRA about repealing notification, Hoenwarter (sp?) told us he wanted us to be the same as the state of Maine. (immediate notification)
When we reached out to BFA, they told us they agreed with the NRA.
They wouldn't come to the same meetings we did, and drove the results we got, even though they were invited.

What else do you think we should do?


Sorry for the delay in response, been traveling this week for work.

What would I have us do? I am glad to hear you made those types of attempts, glad to see we think alike.

This thread has been informative, and it seems like both sides have hardened positions in their trenches, and aren't willing to work things out. I am not thumbing anyone's eye with that last statement, my take is that this seems so one sided based on the info. Seems like you all have tried to reach out recently, and genuinely so. But there is clearly a deep rooted issue, and I find it hard to believe it's so one sided. Why would anyone be that hateful towards us to just delete our posts outright without any merit-based approach? Why would they intentionally act in ways to not include ofcc's position on upcoming legislation? Why is there an utter disgust for us amongst BFA membership? What is the full story? I find it implausible that they just don't like us for no good reason.

So what I would do is figure out what caused that, and find a way to resolve that. Maybe it's an apology. Maybe it's figuring out a way to drop the past disappointments and negativity and approach next time with a fresh breath of air. And I am not asking that you post this publicly, nor am I demanding an answer. But to not do an honest self examination, involving current and past leadership and identify all the areas that we crossed paths with BFA and understanding our contribution to the current situation, and doing everything we can to repair what we can, I think is a mistake.

Am I as enthusiastic about trying to repair the relationship as when I originally posted? No, but I don't think it's so far fetched as what some here make it out to be. The fact remains that we were locked out of the end stage discussion on a bill that was our top priority. I don't think anyone here is considering this as a one time outlier, but by staying isolated, not making all efforts, no matter how much they hurt our pride, how can we make sure it doesn't happen again?
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby carmen fovozzo » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:40 pm

This is getting old. A screw turns both ways.
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:13 am

Ole_grizzly wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Ole_grizzly wrote:And Chuck, what would I do? I’d start by connecting with non leadership members of BFA, develop relationships, and try to learn what information is put out to their members by their leaders in regards to upcoming legislative efforts. I’d also learn their position on ofcc, because I’m sure they feel just as strongly as you do about old problems (and current ones sadly). We may find they’re upset about something that’s not true or mis-understood. Once we have more information, we figure out any areas where we have mutual interest, spread that message to both groups, and then with some bfa membership support (or at least a familiarity) make a formal approach to their leaders proposing to join forces on a singular issue.



I do have relationships with non leadership members of Brand X. Aaron and Buckeye Dan run the shooting range where we had our machine gun shoot.
Several OFCC members went to Jon Husted's trap shoot at the same range.
That range is in my "group" of places I give my business to.
I myself have organized sidewalk rallies in Columbus with them, both leaders and nonleaders alike. If you look at their Facebook page, their cover picture is captioned:
"MAIG Rally - 5 People
BFA Anti-MAIG Rally - 100 people"
Want to guess who set that rally up?
(it wasn't a BFA rally at all,,,,)

When we reached out to the NRA about repealing notification, Hoenwarter (sp?) told us he wanted us to be the same as the state of Maine. (immediate notification)
When we reached out to BFA, they told us they agreed with the NRA.
They wouldn't come to the same meetings we did, and drove the results we got, even though they were invited.

What else do you think we should do?


Sorry for the delay in response, been traveling this week for work.

What would I have us do? I am glad to hear you made those types of attempts, glad to see we think alike.

This thread has been informative, and it seems like both sides have hardened positions in their trenches, and aren't willing to work things out. I am not thumbing anyone's eye with that last statement, my take is that this seems so one sided based on the info. Seems like you all have tried to reach out recently, and genuinely so. But there is clearly a deep rooted issue, and I find it hard to believe it's so one sided. Why would anyone be that hateful towards us to just delete our posts outright without any merit-based approach? Why would they intentionally act in ways to not include ofcc's position on upcoming legislation? Why is there an utter disgust for us amongst BFA membership? What is the full story? I find it implausible that they just don't like us for no good reason.

So what I would do is figure out what caused that, and find a way to resolve that. Maybe it's an apology. Maybe it's figuring out a way to drop the past disappointments and negativity and approach next time with a fresh breath of air. And I am not asking that you post this publicly, nor am I demanding an answer. But to not do an honest self examination, involving current and past leadership and identify all the areas that we crossed paths with BFA and understanding our contribution to the current situation, and doing everything we can to repair what we can, I think is a mistake.

Am I as enthusiastic about trying to repair the relationship as when I originally posted? No, but I don't think it's so far fetched as what some here make it out to be. The fact remains that we were locked out of the end stage discussion on a bill that was our top priority. I don't think anyone here is considering this as a one time outlier, but by staying isolated, not making all efforts, no matter how much they hurt our pride, how can we make sure it doesn't happen again?


No disrespect, Old_Grizzly, but If OFCC disclosed every little tidbit of info about the break up when BFA broke away from us, (if you want to put it like that), it will just be denied by BFA and be painted as "mud slinging", but we would rather take the high road and leave it behind us and move on, which is what we need to do with this discussion.

SO....lets keep this discussion ON topic and discuss what / how we are going to do to fix this in the senate.
Let's make this a "productive" discussion again !
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby rimfireOH » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:20 pm

3FULLMAGS+1 wrote:and discuss what / how we are going to do to fix this in the senate.

At the risk of sounding eager beaver, what's the scoop with that? What can we do to get something better introduced in the Senate? What are the next steps? Whom do we call?
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby Ole_grizzly » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:40 pm

No disrespect, Old_Grizzly, but If OFCC disclosed every little tidbit of info about the break up when BFA broke away from us, (if you want to put it like that), it will just be denied by BFA and be painted as "mud slinging", but we would rather take the high road and leave it behind us and move on, which is what we need to do with this discussion.

SO....lets keep this discussion ON topic and discuss what / how we are going to do to fix this in the senate.
Let's make this a "productive" discussion again !


Fair enough. I am not intentionally belaboring the point, just answering questions from earlier threads. No conflict like this is ever one sided, and I agree with you to move on.
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby Chuck » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:31 pm

Ole_grizzly wrote:
No disrespect, Old_Grizzly, but If OFCC disclosed every little tidbit of info about the break up when BFA broke away from us, (if you want to put it like that), it will just be denied by BFA and be painted as "mud slinging", but we would rather take the high road and leave it behind us and move on, which is what we need to do with this discussion.

SO....lets keep this discussion ON topic and discuss what / how we are going to do to fix this in the senate.
Let's make this a "productive" discussion again !


Fair enough. I am not intentionally belaboring the point, just answering questions from earlier threads. No conflict like this is ever one sided, and I agree with you to move on.


Please feel free to continue in the frank discussions thread.
Frankly, I expected some of these posts to get moved there
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby Chuck » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:41 pm

rimfireOH wrote:
3FULLMAGS+1 wrote:and discuss what / how we are going to do to fix this in the senate.

At the risk of sounding eager beaver, what's the scoop with that? What can we do to get something better introduced in the Senate? What are the next steps? Whom do we call?


We are already working in the Senate, with leadership this time, to get our bill either inserted into other legislation, or introduced as new, with the same language as the original HB 142. When that happens and the hearings roll around, we'll let everyone know.
We have basically wasted almost a year in the house, only to have our bill neutered.
We are now starting anew in the senate, hopefully wiser for the experience.

I really hate it when things come down to the lame duck, but it sure looks like that's where this is heading
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And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
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Re: HB 142 Duty to Inform

Postby rickt » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:13 am

While the House has passed three gun related bills so far, the Senate seems remarkably uninterested in dealing with the subject. There have been almost no hearings on any gun related bills so far this session.
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