"Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military members
Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators
-
- Posts: 1115
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 9:54 am
- Location: medina ohio
"Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military members
law change...
Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military members without regard to their age. "under 21"
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/changes ... ch-21-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
i dont see how that will happen...
ATF holds the power over the FFL's and if ATF says 21, i dont see a FFL countering it...
Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military members without regard to their age. "under 21"
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/changes ... ch-21-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
i dont see how that will happen...
ATF holds the power over the FFL's and if ATF says 21, i dont see a FFL countering it...
- JustaShooter
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 5805
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
- Location: Akron/Canton Area
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
Exactly - but this does allow sales from individuals even if FFLs are still prohibited by Federal law.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
-
- Posts: 16237
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
- Location: SW Ohio
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
As an individual, how would you feel about making such a handgun sale, to an active duty military 18-20 year old, if you didn't know them personally? ( I'm not really aiming the question at you, specifically, but let's get your thoughts anyhoo.)JustaShooter wrote:Exactly - but this does allow sales from individuals even if FFLs are still prohibited by Federal law.
I'd be very leery that someone was trying to set me up, especially if this was at a gun show. The BATFE probably doesn't much care for this Ohio law change.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
- JustaShooter
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 5805
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
- Location: Akron/Canton Area
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
I generally don't sell to people unless I have at least some familiarity with them - at a minimum, through something like this forum, or vouched for by someone I know. So, I would not be comfortable making such a sale to a random person at a gun show, even though I am at least passing familiar with military ID and know how to tell if the card is for active duty and where to look for the date of birth.Brian D. wrote:As an individual, how would you feel about making such a handgun sale, to an active duty military 18-20 year old, if you didn't know them personally? ( I'm not really aiming the question at you, specifically, but let's get your thoughts anyhoo.)JustaShooter wrote:Exactly - but this does allow sales from individuals even if FFLs are still prohibited by Federal law.
I'd be very leery that someone was trying to set me up, especially if this was at a gun show. The BATFE probably doesn't much care for this Ohio law change.
On a related topic, the person must still be an Ohio resident to sell them a handgun, active duty military or not. As the military ID does not include that information, one would be wise to require some other proof of residence.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
- DontTreadOnMe
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 1750
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:11 am
- Location: SW Ohio
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
Here's what the law actually says:
Do all branches include handgun training during basic? I'm pretty sure Air Force at least does not.
Emphasis mine.Divisions (A)(1) and (2) of this section do not apply to the sale or furnishing of a handgun
to an active duty member of the armed forces of the United States who has received firearms
training that meets or exceeds the training requirements described in division (G)(1) of section
2923.125 of the Revised Code
Do all branches include handgun training during basic? I'm pretty sure Air Force at least does not.
- JustaShooter
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 5805
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
- Location: Akron/Canton Area
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
Good point. So, in addition to proof that they are active duty military, the would need to provide proof of training with a handgun sufficient to qualify for a CHL.DontTreadOnMe wrote:Here's what the law actually says:
Emphasis mine.Divisions (A)(1) and (2) of this section do not apply to the sale or furnishing of a handgun
to an active duty member of the armed forces of the United States who has received firearms
training that meets or exceeds the training requirements described in division (G)(1) of section
2923.125 of the Revised Code
Do all branches include handgun training during basic? I'm pretty sure Air Force at least does not.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
- WY_Not
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 2435
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 10:15 pm
- Location: Miami County, OH
- Contact:
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
Back in the 90's we got M-16 only as enlisted. I believe that officers get handgun. Can check with my sister if no one pipes in with the right answer and if anyone is interested.
Learn how Project Appleseed is supporting freedom through Marksmanship and Heritage clinics.
Samuel Adams wrote:If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
- sodbuster95
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 6954
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:14 pm
- Location: Maumee
- Contact:
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
Depends on your MOS. Some enlisted soldiers train on multiple firearms (including handguns and shotguns), some only do M-4/M-16.WY_Not wrote:Back in the 90's we got M-16 only as enlisted. I believe that officers get handgun. Can check with my sister if no one pipes in with the right answer and if anyone is interested.
NRA Benefactor Life Member
Information posted in these forums is my personal opinion only. It is not intended, nor should it be construed, as legal advice.
Information posted in these forums is my personal opinion only. It is not intended, nor should it be construed, as legal advice.
-
- Posts: 16237
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
- Location: SW Ohio
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
I posted on BFA's Facebook page that this part of the law change wasn't really very useful, they shouldn't tout it as such, and perhaps they should offer some further clarification. Unfortunately none of their "suits" got back to me, it's much like their forums, not busy or interactive.
For what it's worth I certainly wouldn't know a genuine active duty military ID from a fake one without doing some studying first. Presumably, military ID's probably get faked same as drivers licenses, for whatever illicit purposes.
For what it's worth I certainly wouldn't know a genuine active duty military ID from a fake one without doing some studying first. Presumably, military ID's probably get faked same as drivers licenses, for whatever illicit purposes.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
- WY_Not
- OFCC Patron Member
- Posts: 2435
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 10:15 pm
- Location: Miami County, OH
- Contact:
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
True. MP/SP had pistols. Also betting the PJ's trained with all sorts of tools.
What I should have clarified was... Basic was carbine/rifle only.
What I should have clarified was... Basic was carbine/rifle only.
sodbuster95 wrote:Depends on your MOS. Some enlisted soldiers train on multiple firearms (including handguns and shotguns), some only do M-4/M-16.WY_Not wrote:Back in the 90's we got M-16 only as enlisted. I believe that officers get handgun. Can check with my sister if no one pipes in with the right answer and if anyone is interested.
Learn how Project Appleseed is supporting freedom through Marksmanship and Heritage clinics.
Samuel Adams wrote:If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
- JustaShooter
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 5805
- Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
- Location: Akron/Canton Area
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
Agreed, on both counts - but I'm no better at detecting fake drivers licenses either. Requiring identification is about due diligence, doing what a reasonable person would/should do to prevent you from selling to someone you shouldn't, not about guaranteeing that you aren't.Brian D. wrote:For what it's worth I certainly wouldn't know a genuine active duty military ID from a fake one without doing some studying first. Presumably, military ID's probably get faked same as drivers licenses, for whatever illicit purposes.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor
Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
-
- Posts: 2175
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:26 am
- Location: Mount Juliet TN
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
And that's what's dangerous about the "reasonable person" standard. Yours may not be the same as the prosecutor's, or the judge's (and it's the judge who will be instructing the jury as to the law, as well as ruling on motions before and during trial on admission / exclusion of evidence, among many other things).JustaShooter wrote:Agreed, on both counts - but I'm no better at detecting fake drivers licenses either. Requiring identification is about due diligence, doing what a reasonable person would/should do to prevent you from selling to someone you shouldn't, not about guaranteeing that you aren't.Brian D. wrote:For what it's worth I certainly wouldn't know a genuine active duty military ID from a fake one without doing some studying first. Presumably, military ID's probably get faked same as drivers licenses, for whatever illicit purposes.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
- schmieg
- OFCC Coordinator
- Posts: 5756
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
- Location: Madeira, Ohio
Re: "Allows the sale of firearms to active duty military mem
That's why you should hire competent counsel who can drill into the jury that you have no reason to be more of an expert on false ID's than they are.docachna wrote:And that's what's dangerous about the "reasonable person" standard. Yours may not be the same as the prosecutor's, or the judge's (and it's the judge who will be instructing the jury as to the law, as well as ruling on motions before and during trial on admission / exclusion of evidence, among many other things).JustaShooter wrote:Agreed, on both counts - but I'm no better at detecting fake drivers licenses either. Requiring identification is about due diligence, doing what a reasonable person would/should do to prevent you from selling to someone you shouldn't, not about guaranteeing that you aren't.Brian D. wrote:For what it's worth I certainly wouldn't know a genuine active duty military ID from a fake one without doing some studying first. Presumably, military ID's probably get faked same as drivers licenses, for whatever illicit purposes.
-- Mike
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand