Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby Brian D. » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:54 pm

JU-87 wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:I never knew about Tweeds rules before being on here, but over the years I've tried to do something similar while on the job, just to keep that job.


Wow. I have never done that. I guess situation does dictate. What is it like to live in fear? :?:


I don't think the "live in fear" comment was very nice. Been in this fire/EMS position, with its union and Civil Service protections for most of my working adult life. No worries discussing firearms on the job for me but I know for a fact that fellow competition shooters employed in other fields had to be extremely careful around that subject. Never felt inclined to infer that they were somehow afraid or fearful. Felt bad for them not being able to regale coworkers about a great match over the weekend, coming home with a first place trophy, etc.
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby JU-87 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:21 am

Brian D. wrote:I don't think the "live in fear" comment was very nice. Been in this fire/EMS position, with its union and Civil Service protections for most of my working adult life. No worries discussing firearms on the job for me ...


Your right, it was not very nice. But I meant it.

I've had "about" 20 different jobs in my life, and I count 4 years in the US Army as one job.Union and non-union. In my nearly 40 years in the workforce, I have had my car searched a total of 1 time. That was while in the Army, on base, I was not allowed to refuse the search. They found 1 box of 45acp ammo and a bag full of fired brass. (There where no firearms in the vehicle). They gave me the "stink-eye", but it was no big deal.

Some people on this thread seem TERRIFIED that soon (March 20,2017?) they can store there loaded handgun, in there car, in there employers parking lot, LEGALLY! They complain that the new law doesn't give them multiple layers of litigation proof protection! :roll:

GOSH! I recommend they use, grow, or transplant a BACKBONE!! :idea:

Regarding talking 2A, shooting sports,guns in general at work: I realize situation does dictate. It MUST, and should always be in "good taste". If my employer acted like Stalin or Lenin, I'd find a better work environment and QUIT. :) I don't need the self muzzling,liberty destroying, so-called "tweeds rules", and I think not many other people do either.

Gun ownership is now "MAINSTREAM".We are winning!! It no longer has to be a " top secret' that you actually own an AR-15 type rifle! I have pictures on my desk at work (under plexi-glass) of me shooting an AR-15 in Service Rifle competition, squadding tickets, the 2017 National Match schedule, etc.
Been at current job nearly 20 years.

I recommend that folks celebrate our 2A progress, NEVER go back to 1970-80's "everyone is against me and I'm scared" mentality that I believe is expressed in the so-called "tweeds rules", and aggressively plan and work towards new 2A goals.

Three things In my opinion:
1. No one is going to search your car.
2. No one is going to search your car.
3. No one is going to search your car.
:)
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Read "War is a Racket" by MG Smedly Butler,USMC. He knew war,and was awarded the Medal of Honor twice. http://warisaracket.org/

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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby WestonDon » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:19 pm

Back during the '70's and '80's firearms was not such a taboo subject, at least not where I worked. I've seen guns examined, discussed and even bought and sold with no issue. Even worked on in the tool room occasionally. As long as nobody did anything stupid and the company work got done nobody cared. I think marijuana was a bigger concern back in those days. Sometime about the late '80's things began to change. Downsizing, plant closings, mergers. The old management, most of whom worked their way up through various positions, were forced out.

It was about that same timeframe when political correctness began to creep in. This got progressively worse in the years leading up to CC in Ohio. For whatever reason the workplace is an entirely different place today than it was in the "good old days".
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby M-Quigley » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:23 pm

WestonDon wrote:Back during the '70's and '80's firearms was not such a taboo subject, at least not where I worked. I've seen guns examined, discussed and even bought and sold with no issue. Even worked on in the tool room occasionally. As long as nobody did anything stupid and the company work got done nobody cared. I think marijuana was a bigger concern back in those days. Sometime about the late '80's things began to change. Downsizing, plant closings, mergers. The old management, most of whom worked their way up through various positions, were forced out.

It was about that same timeframe when political correctness began to creep in. This got progressively worse in the years leading up to CC in Ohio. For whatever reason the workplace is an entirely different place today than it was in the "good old days".


I started working in the late 70's, and noticed that too where I worked. I even had one boss who when an employee brought in his new SMG that he assembled from a legal receiver and parts kit, (MP40) to the break room, said, "You got any ammo for it?" in what looked like a scowl. When the guy said, "In my truck," the boss smiled and replied, "Well, go get it. We can go out back where those tires and that other stuff is stacked up and test it out." :) Unfortunately those days are long gone at a lot of places. Now everything comes from corporate, whose decisions are based on lawyers and so called expert consultants. :(
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby mrbone » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:46 pm

To those that don't like the parking lot provision, here is why it's OK:

1) At least for employers who are corporations (especially limited liability), these are inventions of the state so can't complain when the state controls them. If you don't like it, argue against the government construct of corporations in general rather than this bill.

2) I own my car. It is my property. What I do in it is my business. It's a property rights violation for someone to tell me what I can and can't do in there. I my boss wants to ban cars on his property then so be it. But if he allows cars then what goes on in a car is none of his business since his property rights end at the boundary of my car. He only owns the pavement below the car, not the car above it.

3) My guess is most employers have gun bans because their lawyers think that if anything happens on the work site with a firearm and possession of the firearm was compliant with the employee code then the company will end up being held liable in a lawsuit. In other words, it is the state (or at least a reasonable fear of the state), not private individuals, that is inducing employer gun bans. I know the CHL law grant liability exemption, but a similar federal exemption of liability for gun manufactures hasn't stopped lawsuits. Thus the majority of employers policies affected by this are probably just a consequence of the state, not of private property rights.
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby WestonDon » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:52 am

Most companies spend little time and effort thinking about firearms policy. Simply because doing so adds little or nothing to the bottom line. When CC became legal it forced companies to think about firearms policy. When asked to establish a policy about something one knows or cares little about the easiest thing to do is just prohibit it. Simple, clean, done. Then move on to something important, like coffee service in the conference room.
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby M-Quigley » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:08 am

mrbone wrote:I know the CHL law grant liability exemption, but a similar federal exemption of liability for gun manufactures hasn't stopped lawsuits. Thus the majority of employers policies affected by this are probably just a consequence of the state, not of private property rights.


If you're referring to the PLCAA it's not a blanket protection against lawsuits. Although very little stops someone from filing a lawsuit, there are plenty of examples where the PLCAA has gotten lawsuits thrown out when there was no evidence presented that the company was complicit in some way with the crime, or put out a defective product. . The anti gunners that I've heard from hate the PLCAA with a passion. Getting it reversed is probably #1 on their list of things to pass if they ever regain the Executive and Legislative branches.

If someone somewhere does something stupid in a company parking lot with a gun, at least with this law the company might be able to say, "Hey, we shouldn't be held responsible, there's a law preventing us from prohibiting guns in cars in our lot."

Speaking of non intentional acts, my homeowners insurance covers accidental shootings on the property, but not intentional ones, like self defense. Say for example, an employee has a gun in his car, and while putting it away negligently fires the gun, injuring himself or another employee, customer, etc, in the parking lot. Is a companies insurance potentially responsible?
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby walnut red » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:28 pm

M-Quigley wrote:
mrbone wrote:I know the CHL law grant liability exemption, but a similar federal exemption of liability for gun manufactures hasn't stopped lawsuits. Thus the majority of employers policies affected by this are probably just a consequence of the state, not of private property rights.


If someone somewhere does something stupid in a company parking lot with a gun, at least with this law the company might be able to say, "Hey, we shouldn't be held responsible, there's a law preventing us from prohibiting guns in cars in our lot."

Speaking of non intentional acts, my homeowners insurance covers accidental shootings on the property, but not intentional ones, like self defense. Say for example, an employee has a gun in his car, and while putting it away negligently fires the gun, injuring himself or another employee, customer, etc, in the parking lot. Is a companies insurance potentially responsible?


If the same think happened is on-street or city owned parking would the city be liable? I have a hard time seeing that stick.
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby M-Quigley » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:39 pm

walnut red wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:
mrbone wrote:I know the CHL law grant liability exemption, but a similar federal exemption of liability for gun manufactures hasn't stopped lawsuits. Thus the majority of employers policies affected by this are probably just a consequence of the state, not of private property rights.


If someone somewhere does something stupid in a company parking lot with a gun, at least with this law the company might be able to say, "Hey, we shouldn't be held responsible, there's a law preventing us from prohibiting guns in cars in our lot."

Speaking of non intentional acts, my homeowners insurance covers accidental shootings on the property, but not intentional ones, like self defense. Say for example, an employee has a gun in his car, and while putting it away negligently fires the gun, injuring himself or another employee, customer, etc, in the parking lot. Is a companies insurance potentially responsible?


If the same think happened is on-street or city owned parking would the city be liable? I have a hard time seeing that stick.


The street is not private property. As far as city owned parking, don't know. Whether a suit might eventually be successful is of less importance to most businesses than "The company/corporate lawyer told us if we don't ban guns we'll get sued."
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby sd790 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:30 pm

Does anyone know for certain exactly what day this sausage of a law goes into effect? I have not found any certain date yet. I've found March 20, 21, and 23.
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby schmieg » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:51 pm

sd790 wrote:Does anyone know for certain exactly what day this sausage of a law goes into effect? I have not found any certain date yet. I've found March 20, 21, and 23.

According to the State record, March 21.

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA131-SB-199
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby BecauseICan » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:20 pm

So how about us individuals that work in an environment that falls under homeland security jurisdiction?

The (private) company has come out and said it will allow it however I must register with security, let them copy my ID, allow occasional background checks to verify and they may request the model and serial number of my firearm. It also must be unloaded while on the property, but cannot be unloaded, loaded, or otherwise manipulated while on the property.

And yes, they do random car searches with dogs. I have seen it done more than once in the last few years. It was said it would be more frequent now but not in writing.

Personally I can see them wanting to know who has a firearm despite having passed a background check to get the job. I don't understand the unloaded part. I don't see how that could be enforceable but that is what I am looking into.
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby sd790 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:45 pm

schmieg wrote:
sd790 wrote:Does anyone know for certain exactly what day this sausage of a law goes into effect? I have not found any certain date yet. I've found March 20, 21, and 23.

According to the State record, March 21.

https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA131-SB-199


THAT'S what I was looking for. Thank you, schmieg!
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby scorchedtrumpet » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:11 pm

So I pull into the parking lot at work on my motorcycle. due to SB199 I am now allowed to keep my pistol locked in my vehicle while at work, but I can not carry it while on the property of my employer. Am I violating state law when I get off my motorcycle, disarm, and secure my pistol in the lock box in my locking saddle bag? Technically I am standing on my employers property. Securing my firearm in the lock box in the saddle bag while actually sitting on my motorcycle is not possible. I know what I am going to do, just want to know what the law states, but can not find it specifically stated.
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Re: Action on SB199 including parking lot carry

Postby Brian D. » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:20 pm

scorchedtrumpet wrote:So I pull into the parking lot at work on my motorcycle. due to SB199 I am now allowed to keep my pistol locked in my vehicle while at work, but I can not carry it while on the property of my employer. Am I violating state law when I get off my motorcycle, disarm, and secure my pistol in the lock box in my locking saddle bag? Technically I am standing on my employers property. Securing my firearm in the lock box in the saddle bag while actually sitting on my motorcycle is not possible. I know what I am going to do, just want to know what the law states, but can not find it specifically stated.


The wording is a goat rope, full of gray area like this so that lawyers not currently serving terms in the Ohio Statehouse can make money working "both sides of the street", in my jaded opinion.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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