Ohio Knife Laws ?

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talon99
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Ohio Knife Laws ?

Post by talon99 »

I'm interested in getting more politically active. One area that I would like to address is to amend the confusing Ohio knife laws.

Is anyone currently working on this and are their advocates for knife rights at the statehouse?
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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Check out http://www.KnifeRights.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; if you want to get involved in the fight on the knife side.
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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First, there aren't any "knife laws" in Ohio. But what about Ohio's deadly weapon laws do you find confusing with respect to knives?
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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SeanC wrote:First, there aren't any "knife laws" in Ohio. But what about Ohio's deadly weapon laws do you find confusing with respect to knives?
Can't speak for the OP, but it is confusing and annoying that knife laws vary so much from town to town throughout Ohio, even with respect to such minutiae as blade length on a folder. What is perfectly legal on one side of a street suddenly becomes illegal as you walk over to that restaurant on the other side. Florida was literally like that with respect to firearms laws before they passed concealed carry and statewide preemption. Of course they did finally put some "teeth" in the preemption. If only the Ohio General Assembly could be bribed convinced to do the same.
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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SeanC wrote:First, there aren't any "knife laws" in Ohio. But what about Ohio's deadly weapon laws do you find confusing with respect to knives?
I would like to see our CHL (okay, OLTCACH) become a CWL (or OLTCACW). That would be a good start; that and preemption for knife laws.
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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SeanC wrote:First, there aren't any "knife laws" in Ohio. But what about Ohio's deadly weapon laws do you find confusing with respect to knives?
Also not the OP but I find the vagueness of definition surrounding "designed or specially adapted" as it relates to knives to be extremely confusing. The clearest guidance I'm aware of comes from State v. Cattledge
the following characteristics may, but not always, support a finding that a folding knife is a deadly weapon within the definition of R.C. 2923.11(A): (1) a blade that can easily be opened with one hand, such as a knife with a switch, a spring-loaded blade, or a gravity blade capable of instant one-handed operation; (2) a blade that locks into position and cannot close without triggering the lock; (3) a blade that is serrated; (4) a blade tip that is sharp; (5) an additional design element on the blade, such as a hole, that aids in unfolding the knife with one hand; (6) does not resemble an "ordinary" pocket knife; and (7) is a type of knife considered a weapon for purposes of R.C. 2923.20(A)(3)
On to my confusion regarding the above.

First we start with "may, but not always". Is it or isn't it? How is a law-abiding citizen to know? From the above it doesn't seem that you can know (raising the question whether the "designed or specially adapted" ought to be void for vagueness -- if Appellate judges can't know for certain, how am I supposed to?)

Let's look at (1) and (5).
(1) a blade that can easily be opened with one hand, such as a knife with a switch, a spring-loaded blade, or a gravity blade capable of instant one-handed operation
That seems helpful. A knife that can be easily opened with one-hand (virtually) instantaneously.
(5) an additional design element on the blade, such as a hole, that aids in unfolding the knife with one hand
There goes that. No longer "easily" or "instantaneous" because a feature that simply "aids" in one-handed operation is also sufficient (or is that "may, but not always" be sufficient?)

SMH but moving on
(2) a blade that locks into position and cannot close without triggering the lock
This is a safety feature ("Locking systems are essential for folding knives because they prevent the knife from closing on your hand during use." https://www.knife-depot.com/blog/a-guid ... g-systems/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). An amazingly common safety feature. US Patent US5755035 even makes clear the objective of the lock is to avoid "allow[ing] the blade to close, with possible serious injury resulting to the user of the knife".

So having a feature on a knife that is designed to avoid serious injury to the user makes it (may(be) but not always) a deadly weapon. Again, smh
(3) a blade that is serrated;
According to at least some experts this makes the blade less dangerous as a weapon:
"While I disagree with the author about needing serrations (in my cutting tests they performed worse than non-serrated blades for defensive purposes), everything else he says is right on." http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/w ... ber-5-2012" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The author being referenced specifically recommended serrated blades for their usefulness in cutting seat belts, not people:"Always, repeat always, get a serrated blade. They always cut, even when dull and they blow through a seat belt like something vulgar through a goose." http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/26/10-th ... z4DetpTPTU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So here we're focusing on a feature that makes the blade (at least based on actual tests) less effective as a weapon but better for things like cutting through a seatbelt. This is like banning the "shoulder thingy that goes up".
(4) a blade tip that is sharp;
As opposed to blunt?
(6) does not resemble an "ordinary" pocket knife
"ordinary" pocket knife begs the question. Also, virtually every pocket knife I've ever seen has one (or more) blades with a sharp tip (#4).
and (7) is a type of knife considered a weapon for purposes of R.C. 2923.20(A)(3)
This borders on being helpful except that the "may but not always" applies here, making one wonder under which circumstances the carrying of a switchblade would not be considered possession of a deadly weapon.

Finally I'll note that the quoted text is phrased as "the following characteristics ... and (7) ..." . Most people read them as a list of separate possible features but wouldn't the use of "and" suggest a knife must have all the features to meet the court's criteria? Looking at the Cattledge case the court analyzed the knife in question and found that it met each of those features. So is the legal standard that a knife must have all 7 features (and even that means it "may, but not necessarily" be a deadly weapon)?
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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A lockblade is illegal in United Kingdom, that's their version of an assault weapon. :shock: :roll:
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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SeanC wrote:First, there aren't any "knife laws" in Ohio. But what about Ohio's deadly weapon laws do you find confusing with respect to knives?
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php? ... e+legality" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - adding on to DontTreadOnMe's post, above.
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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TSiWRX wrote:
SeanC wrote:First, there aren't any "knife laws" in Ohio. But what about Ohio's deadly weapon laws do you find confusing with respect to knives?
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php? ... e+legality" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - adding on to DontTreadOnMe's post, above.
I get that there are legal issues pertinent to knives, but that doesn't mean we have "knife laws." There are laws that pertain to deadly weapons, some of which are broad enough to encompass knives along with many other objects. We have "gun laws" because there are laws that pertain exactly to guns. There are no state knife laws in Ohio.
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

Post by TSiWRX »

SeanC wrote: I get that there are legal issues pertinent to knives, but that doesn't mean we have "knife laws." There are laws that pertain to deadly weapons, some of which are broad enough to encompass knives along with many other objects. We have "gun laws" because there are laws that pertain exactly to guns. There are no state knife laws in Ohio.
^ Ah, I see what you're saying.
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

Post by Star56 »

So Automatic Knives are legal to purchase and own but conceal it and you have a problem.

How about open carry of an Auto Knife?

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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

Post by Werz »

SeanC wrote:
TSiWRX wrote:
SeanC wrote:First, there aren't any "knife laws" in Ohio. But what about Ohio's deadly weapon laws do you find confusing with respect to knives?
http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php? ... e+legality" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - adding on to DontTreadOnMe's post, above.
I get that there are legal issues pertinent to knives, but that doesn't mean we have "knife laws." There are laws that pertain to deadly weapons, some of which are broad enough to encompass knives along with many other objects. We have "gun laws" because there are laws that pertain exactly to guns. There are no state knife laws in Ohio.
There are, however, municipal knife ordinances, and those always cause me concern, since R.C. 9.68 applies only to firearms.
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

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Werz wrote:There are, however, municipal knife ordinances, and those always cause me concern, since R.C. 9.68 applies only to firearms.
I certainly agree. But (and you would know about this) how often does somebody get charged with such a municipal possession violation, without it being part of a pile of other charges? Been my observation that police don't seem to pay that much attention to knives in the possession of normal acting/behaving adults.
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

Post by Werz »

Brian D. wrote:
Werz wrote:There are, however, municipal knife ordinances, and those always cause me concern, since R.C. 9.68 applies only to firearms.
I certainly agree. But (and you would know about this) how often does somebody get charged with such a municipal possession violation, without it being part of a pile of other charges? Been my observation that police don't seem to pay that much attention to knives in the possession of normal acting/behaving adults.
Not often. Probably depends on how annoying you are.
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Re: Ohio Knife Laws ?

Post by TSiWRX »

Does what happened to Michael Porschien count?
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