ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

djthomas wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:There's one place that claims they even run some kind of background check before you can use their range. Not that it would bother me I guess, just not a regular experience for me.
Somehow I doubt that's really happening ... That'd be cost prohibitive. Not to mention highly inaccurate and it could actually subject them to more liability.
Q: Did you run a background check on the guy who shot up the range?
A: No - the law doesn't require it nor is it a common business practice to do so.

Q: Did you run a background check on the guy who shot up the range?
A: Oh yes, we run background checks on everybody because we want to be safe and it's reassuring to the public.
Q: So then how did your supposed background check miss the three felony convictions on this guy's record?
A: Ahh, umm...
Q: So what you're saying is you advertised that everyone was vetted but in reality, these checks were worthless.
A: Uhhm...
Unless they're doing a NICS check.
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cashman966
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Re: ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

Post by cashman966 »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
djthomas wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:There's one place that claims they even run some kind of background check before you can use their range. Not that it would bother me I guess, just not a regular experience for me.
Somehow I doubt that's really happening ... That'd be cost prohibitive. Not to mention highly inaccurate and it could actually subject them to more liability.
Q: Did you run a background check on the guy who shot up the range?
A: No - the law doesn't require it nor is it a common business practice to do so.

Q: Did you run a background check on the guy who shot up the range?
A: Oh yes, we run background checks on everybody because we want to be safe and it's reassuring to the public.
Q: So then how did your supposed background check miss the three felony convictions on this guy's record?
A: Ahh, umm...
Q: So what you're saying is you advertised that everyone was vetted but in reality, these checks were worthless.
A: Uhhm...
Unless they're doing a NICS check.
If they are doing a NICS check to use the range they may want to rethink the practice.

28 CFR 25.6 - Accessing records in the system.
§ 25.6 Accessing records in the system.
(a) FFLs may initiate a NICS background check only in connection with a proposed firearm transfer as required by the Brady Act. FFLs are strictly prohibited from initiating a NICS background check for any other purpose. The process of accessing the NICS for the purpose of conducting a NICS background check is initiated by an FFL's contacting the FBI NICS Operations Center (by telephone or electronic dial-up access) or a POC. FFLs in each state will be advised by the ATF whether they are required to initiate NICS background checks with the NICS Operations Center or a POC and how they are to do so.
28 CFR 25.11 - Prohibited activities and penalties.
§ 25.11 Prohibited activities and penalties.
(a) State or local agencies, FFLs, or individuals violating this subpart A shall be subject to a fine not to exceed $10,000 and subject to cancellation of NICS inquiry privileges.

(b) Misuse or unauthorized access includes, but is not limited to, the following:
(1) State or local agencies', FFLs', or individuals' purposefully furnishing incorrect information to the system to obtain a “Proceed” response, thereby allowing a firearm transfer;
(2) State or local agencies', FFLs', or individuals' purposefully using the system to perform a check for unauthorized purposes; and
(3) Any unauthorized person's accessing the NICS.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

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wkdravenna
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Re: ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

Post by wkdravenna »

I just put myself in the position owning a range. If I rented a firearm to some one, I think I'd make it a policy to hold identifications. Speedway speedy card, gym membership card, Delta airline gold club card, maybe cedar point season passes. Seems reasonable.
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Re: ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

Post by M-Quigley »

djthomas wrote:
M-Quigley wrote:There's one place that claims they even run some kind of background check before you can use their range. Not that it would bother me I guess, just not a regular experience for me.
Somehow I doubt that's really happening ... That'd be cost prohibitive. Not to mention highly inaccurate and it could actually subject them to more liability.
Q: Did you run a background check on the guy who shot up the range?
A: No - the law doesn't require it nor is it a common business practice to do so.

Q: Did you run a background check on the guy who shot up the range?
A: Oh yes, we run background checks on everybody because we want to be safe and it's reassuring to the public.
Q: So then how did your supposed background check miss the three felony convictions on this guy's record?
A: Ahh, umm...
Q: So what you're saying is you advertised that everyone was vetted but in reality, these checks were worthless.
A: Uhhm...
Sorry it took so long for me to reply to this, had to find my source. The owners of Sim-Trainer in Moraine have a radio show called "Shootin from the Hip". On one of their podcasts (downloadable from the net) they mention they that it is a members only range, and that they do a background check. They didn't say what kind. I know that in the past when I've inquired to some gun and sportsmans clubs, almost every one of them has told me they do a "background check" (whatever that means) on prospective members, as well as almost every employer I've ever worked for.

I'm not a member of Sim Trainer, but I did go there once to rent their guns, and you weren't required to be a member to do that (at that time). I had to show ID, but they didn't say whether they did any kind of background check or not prior to using their guns and their range.
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Re: ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

Post by lklawson »

Thank you.

I keep reading things about what Ohio Law requires and, while it sounds "reasonable," I have never been able to find ORC for it.

One person reported to me that he was shooting at a range and the RSO denied a couple of university students their rentals because they had out of state licenses and said that Ohio ID was required to rent.

I just saw another report that a single person is legally prohibited to rent. Apparently firearms rentals must be done in pairs. That one seems obvious BS to me, but still, there are a lot of things in the books which seem obvious BS yet are the law anyway. :?

Thank you.

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Re: ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

Post by Brian D. »

lklawson wrote:Thank you.

I keep reading things about what Ohio Law requires and, while it sounds "reasonable," I have never been able to find ORC for it.

One person reported to me that he was shooting at a range and the RSO denied a couple of university students their rentals because they had out of state licenses and said that Ohio ID was required to rent.

I just saw another report that a single person is legally prohibited to rent. Apparently firearms rentals must be done in pairs. That one seems obvious BS to me, but still, there are a lot of things in the books which seem obvious BS yet are the law anyway. :?

Thank you.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
As stated about your original inquiry, those prohibitions you list this time are very likely rules of the businesses. NOT part of the ORC. I can understand why a range would have both of them, by the way. Especially the second one: In most all range suicides by rental gun I've ever heard of, the person came in alone, for what should be obvious reasons.

As to restrictions against rentals to out-of-state residents, it's hard enough to spot fake ID's from one's own state of residence. I can't blame a business, especially if it's located someplace that doesn't get much tourism, if you will, for cutting down some hassle with trying to figure out such things.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Since the ATF does not view an on-site rental as a transfer, there is no legal reason why a range could not rent a handgun to a 21 year old with an out of state ID.

Again, just a company policy.

The same for the "single person". Brian D. is right. That's also just a policy.

So, where are you finding these stories and claims?
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Re: ORC for Ohio ID to rent guns

Post by lklawson »

Brian D. wrote:As stated about your original inquiry, those prohibitions you list this time are very likely rules of the businesses. NOT part of the ORC.
Yes, thank you. I get that. Those answers, as stated about my original inquiry, confirmed what I have been able to find.

I asked, again, because I couldn't find any references in OCR yet these claims that "it is the law" seem particularly persistent. I'm pretty good at researching the laws but I also understand that I'm only one person, not a lawyer, and may have missed something. The most reasonable recourse at that point is to confer with other folks to confirm my conclusions.

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