New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

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StiltzM109R
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New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by StiltzM109R »

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf ... er_do.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Read the article. My girlfriend knew this woman. They were good friends. I agree More needs to be done to protect Domestic Violence Victims. More gun laws are not needed. People intent on conducting criminal activity, premeditated or not, will get their hands on a gun. Criminals always have guns. This was a premeditated murder.

Women need to protect themselves in a domestic situation. They can get an emergency permit issued when this situation occurs. All women who qualify should take a CCW Class and get their permit. Carry everyday just like you carry your purse. Don't rely on law enforcement or the justice system to protect you. They have failed over and over in regards to this situation. When charges are filed for domestic violence, no plea bargins should be allowed. Any man that lays his hands in a abusive manner on a woman should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The bill that has been introduced above should be altered to automatically issue a search warrant for the abuser's place of residence, place of work and any other property owned. The search warrant should allow the confiscation of firearms and all firearms related items. The abuser should be held in custody until all search warrants have been executed. This should then go on their record and show in a background check, when license plates are run and when applying for employment. If this person is found to be in possession of any firearm related items after this, it should be automatic imprisonment. The bill should also allow police to conduct a search at any given time unnotified to verify that this person is not in possession of any prohibited items.

I am pro-gun. I have a CCW and carry everyday, but I do believe victims in this situation need to be protected to the full extent of the law. These children now have to deal with this memory and pain now for the rest of their lives because of one person who couldn't straighten out their life, get the help they needed and decided to play God.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by marca »

That's all well and good as long as the woman making the accusations is truthful and not making everything up. While fabricating claims of domestic abuse may not be the norm, I'll bet it happens frequently as a part of nasty divorces. Just one more way a vengeful woman can strike back at her future ex.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by JustaShooter »

The potential for abuse in the proposed law, especially with your proposed changes, is immense. I could not possibly support such legislation. I have seen what happens on the other side, where someone is accused unjustly. I cannot imagine how bad it would have been if this law, especially with your proposed changes, had been in effect.
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StiltzM109R
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by StiltzM109R »

I understand where you are coming and agree with you. In this case he had made threats, drank heavily and police had responded to multiple calls. I also agree it should go the other way around. There is female against male domestic violence and the rules should apply there also. 2 Judges determined he wasn't a threat. How they came to that conclusion, I'm not sure. He had known PTSD issues also. I have no sympathy for this man. He should not be allowed to get a military burial due to the circumstances. Things need to change and I know my proposal isn't the end all solution, but we need to start moving in the right direction. If I had know this woman personally or someone else in this situation, I would just stay with them or have them come stay with me. My girlfriend now has a complete understanding on why I carry everyday. She was never against it. She has taken her course and wants to get her permit now. I bought her a new handgun and she feels comfortable with it.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by WY_Not »

What happened to this woman is indeed tragic. However, the proposed law is far worse.

Agree to a certain extent with the sentiments. There is no need for gender in what you say. ALL people should take responsibility for their own safety and protection. Male or female designations have no place in this discussion or in the law. You know, the whole equal under the law thing? NO ONE should lay a hand on anyone else uninvited. While the message of male vs female isn't as blatant as the BLM arguments it is still an insidious, false division. Male or female is irrelevant just as black or white is irrelevant. If you commit a crime, you face the consequences.

Don't think we need yet more onerous, intrusive, one-size-fits-all laws. Make use of the tools that are there. So we should not allow plea bargaining for those accused of domestic violence but we have no problem allowing it for murder, rape, and a host of other much worse crimes? So we should make life harder for, and potentially ruin a person's career over an accusation? Just because I am accused of something should not trigger an automatic forfeiture of rights and property. You know, the whole innocent until proven guilty thing?

To punish someone on an accusation, without an actual conviction is not justice, it is tyranny. The media does a good enough job of ruining peoples lives over an accusation; they don't need the assistance of the law to pile on. Just ask the players of that college lacrosse team.
StiltzM109R wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf ... er_do.html

Read the article. My girlfriend knew this woman. They were good friends. I agree More needs to be done to protect Domestic Violence Victims. More gun laws are not needed. People intent on conducting criminal activity, premeditated or not, will get their hands on a gun. Criminals always have guns. This was a premeditated murder.

Women need to protect themselves in a domestic situation. They can get an emergency permit issued when this situation occurs. All women who qualify should take a CCW Class and get their permit. Carry everyday just like you carry your purse. Don't rely on law enforcement or the justice system to protect you. They have failed over and over in regards to this situation. When charges are filed for domestic violence, no plea bargins should be allowed. Any man that lays his hands in a abusive manner on a woman should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The bill that has been introduced above should be altered to automatically issue a search warrant for the abuser's place of residence, place of work and any other property owned. The search warrant should allow the confiscation of firearms and all firearms related items. The abuser should be held in custody until all search warrants have been executed. This should then go on their record and show in a background check, when license plates are run and when applying for employment. If this person is found to be in possession of any firearm related items after this, it should be automatic imprisonment. The bill should also allow police to conduct a search at any given time unnotified to verify that this person is not in possession of any prohibited items.

I am pro-gun. I have a CCW and carry everyday, but I do believe victims in this situation need to be protected to the full extent of the law. These children now have to deal with this memory and pain now for the rest of their lives because of one person who couldn't straighten out their life, get the help they needed and decided to play God.
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StiltzM109R
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by StiltzM109R »

There would have to be proven abuse. In this case there were multiple police reports filed and 2 judges still thought he wasn't a threat. He had known suicidal issues, PTSD and made homicidal threats to her, the kids and family. As with any law there is potential for abuse, but DV victims needs to be protected. A man that hits, abuses (mentally, emotionally or physically) a woman is HUGE pet peeve of mine. I have intervened in situations in the past. Not one regret for what I did either. Any man that abuses a female should be slowly tortured and put to death. You are not a man if you abuse a female or children. Abusers and molesters top my list of the need for an immediate death penalty. Now these children have to deal with this memory the rest of their lives and not have any parents. I'm sorry you feel that way Shooter. Maybe if someone close to you was the recipient of abuse or molestation, you might think differently. I've witnessed it first hand with people close to me and people I didn't know.

I don't agree with plea bargaining for any serious charge like murder, rape, molestation or anything of the sort. I don't agree with appeals either. If you're found guilty, of murder, rape, molestation, then we just take you out back and shoot you. Why should I have to pay for you to get 3 meals a day and sit in prison for years?

I understand about the gender thing. I was raised your woman is your queen. You treat your lady with respect and protect her and your family at all costs. I'm very old school in that manner. I know people will not agree with me and as I stated above, I know my solution is not perfect but it's a move in the right direction. Instead of shooting ideas down, people need to come together and discuss solutions. Parts of my solution may merge with parts of a solution you have. Race, sex, religion shouldn't matter. An overall solution for the problem in general needs to be found.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by JustaShooter »

StiltzM109R wrote:There would have to be proven abuse.
You say that, but above you also say this:
The bill that has been introduced above should be altered to automatically issue a search warrant for the abuser's place of residence, place of work and any other property owned. The search warrant should allow the confiscation of firearms and all firearms related items. The abuser should be held in custody until all search warrants have been executed. This should then go on their record and show in a background check, when license plates are run and when applying for employment. If this person is found to be in possession of any firearm related items after this, it should be automatic imprisonment. The bill should also allow police to conduct a search at any given time unnotified to verify that this person is not in possession of any prohibited items.
I see nothing about "proven abuse" only accusation and then unleashing the machinery of government. This would be a fierce weapon that an accuser could wield against someone unjustly. No. No! A thousand times no!
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StiltzM109R
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by StiltzM109R »

JustaShooter wrote:
StiltzM109R wrote:There would have to be proven abuse.
You say that, but above you also say this:
The bill that has been introduced above should be altered to automatically issue a search warrant for the abuser's place of residence, place of work and any other property owned. The search warrant should allow the confiscation of firearms and all firearms related items. The abuser should be held in custody until all search warrants have been executed. This should then go on their record and show in a background check, when license plates are run and when applying for employment. If this person is found to be in possession of any firearm related items after this, it should be automatic imprisonment. The bill should also allow police to conduct a search at any given time unnotified to verify that this person is not in possession of any prohibited items.
I see nothing about "proven abuse" only accusation and then unleashing the machinery of government. This would be a fierce weapon that an accuser could wield against someone unjustly. No. No! A thousand times no!
You can't get a restraining order with just a statement. Once the order is issued, then the above take place. Someone wants to think they're a better person because they can bully someone around, then once the order is in place you deserve to have your life ruined. If you're not abusive, then you would have nothing to worry about. I can't agree with you on this one. Your partner is supposed to be your equal.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by WY_Not »

That is a failure of the people in positions of authority. It is not a failure of the law. No amount of new law will fix such failures. The proposed law is worse than what it is aimed at fixing.
StiltzM109R wrote:There would have to be proven abuse. In this case there were multiple police reports filed and 2 judges still thought he wasn't a threat. He had known suicidal issues, PTSD and made homicidal threats to her, the kids and family.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by JustaShooter »

WY_Not wrote:That is a failure of the people in positions of authority. It is not a failure of the law. No amount of new law will fix such failures. The proposed law is worse than what it is aimed at fixing.
StiltzM109R wrote:There would have to be proven abuse. In this case there were multiple police reports filed and 2 judges still thought he wasn't a threat. He had known suicidal issues, PTSD and made homicidal threats to her, the kids and family.
Agreed. Completely.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by JustaShooter »

StiltzM109R wrote: If you're not abusive, then you would have nothing to worry about.
Where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah: "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."
StiltzM109R wrote: I can't agree with you on this one. Your partner is supposed to be your equal.
And I can't agree with you. I've see how the current law is already abused, and this would make it far worse. In the words of a fellow member here,
That is a failure of the people in positions of authority. It is not a failure of the law. No amount of new law will fix such failures. The proposed law is worse than what it is aimed at fixing.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by JustaShooter »

StiltzM109R wrote:You can't get a restraining order with just a statement.
Yes you can, it happens all the time. Judges often believe a female complainant in such cases, without question. In one of the situations I'm familiar with, the female had friends who lied on her behalf - "I seen it, I seen him do it!" - and without anyone to corroborate his version of events, it was all but over with.

Had your version of this law been in effect since he was living at home at the time, his parents would have had *their* home searched and *their* firearms and firearms-related items seized, and carte blanche for the police to search *their* home at any time without notice, and a permanent mark on an innocent young man's record that would affect his employment and every interaction with law enforcement he ever had from that point on.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by StiltzM109R »

JustaShooter wrote:
StiltzM109R wrote:You can't get a restraining order with just a statement.
Yes you can, it happens all the time. Judges often believe a female complainant in such cases, without question. In one of the situations I'm familiar with, the female had friends who lied on her behalf - "I seen it, I seen him do it!" - and without anyone to corroborate his version of events, it was all but over with.

Had your version of this law been in effect since he was living at home at the time, his parents would have had *their* home searched and *their* firearms and firearms-related items seized, and carte blanche for the police to search *their* home at any time without notice, and a permanent mark on an innocent young man's record that would affect his employment and every interaction with law enforcement he ever had from that point on.
In a situation such as this, he could've chose to break the relationship off at any time. Why guys choose crazy girls, I will never understand. Any thought crosses my mind about the girl I'm with and if she would ever jeopardize my situation, I'm out. I give 100% loyalty, I expect in return. As I've stated previously, my solution is not perfect but it's a start.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

I appreciate your passion in desire for solutions to this serious problem. I might be able to support the bill described in that article (depending on details). Your additional provisions, however well-intentioned, could be easily abused. More importantly your provisions restrict a constitutionally protected right without due process, which is antithetical to the concept of liberty.
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Re: New Legislation - Domestic Violence Victims

Post by JustaShooter »

StiltzM109R wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
StiltzM109R wrote:You can't get a restraining order with just a statement.
Yes you can, it happens all the time. Judges often believe a female complainant in such cases, without question. In one of the situations I'm familiar with, the female had friends who lied on her behalf - "I seen it, I seen him do it!" - and without anyone to corroborate his version of events, it was all but over with.

Had your version of this law been in effect since he was living at home at the time, his parents would have had *their* home searched and *their* firearms and firearms-related items seized, and carte blanche for the police to search *their* home at any time without notice, and a permanent mark on an innocent young man's record that would affect his employment and every interaction with law enforcement he ever had from that point on.
In a situation such as this, he could've chose to break the relationship off at any time. Why guys choose crazy girls, I will never understand. Any thought crosses my mind about the girl I'm with and if she would ever jeopardize my situation, I'm out. I give 100% loyalty, I expect in return. As I've stated previously, my solution is not perfect but it's a start.
Wut? It is *his* fault for not recognizing she was crazy and vindictive enough to do something like this *before* she had her friends call the police on him and allege abuse?

SMH.

I'm done.
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