HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

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eye95
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by eye95 »

JustaShooter wrote:
eye95 wrote: I was asking a legitimate legal question, not looking for snark.

Moving on.
The answer was provided. You chose to persist and claim the answer was inaccurate in the face of a plain reading of ORC 2923.126. Or, did you not bother to actually read that section?
I jump back in to point out one thing.

Lie.

I made no such claim.
Be a Madisonian.

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JustaShooter
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by JustaShooter »

eye95 wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
eye95 wrote: I was asking a legitimate legal question, not looking for snark.

Moving on.
The answer was provided. You chose to persist and claim the answer was inaccurate in the face of a plain reading of ORC 2923.126. Or, did you not bother to actually read that section?
I jump back in to point out one thing.

Lie.

I made no such claim.
Actually, yes, you did:
eye95 wrote:Again, that section does not say you are prohibited from carrying in a church. It just says the license does not allow you to. So what? The license does not allow you to pick your nose. Go ahead and pick it. Nothing in the law says you cannot.
I anticipate your apology.
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by techguy85 »

eye95 wrote:Again, that section does not say you are prohibited from carrying in a church. It just says the license does not allow you to. So what? The license does not allow you to pick your nose. Go ahead and pick it. Nothing in the law says you cannot.
No, but R.C. 2923.12 (A) (2) makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun outside your home without a license, regardless of location.
So, you would simply be charged with violation of that division.
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by eye95 »

techguy85 wrote:
eye95 wrote:Again, that section does not say you are prohibited from carrying in a church. It just says the license does not allow you to. So what? The license does not allow you to pick your nose. Go ahead and pick it. Nothing in the law says you cannot.
No, but R.C. 2923.12 (A) (2) makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun outside your home without a license, regardless of location.
So, you would simply be charged with violation of that division.
Thank you for your genuine response. I'd love to reply to your post.

I never carry concealed.

My question has to do with the language that purports to prohibit carry in a church. Since the license is said not to allow you to carry in a church, what disallows it?

Our tradition in law has always been that, if something is not disallowed, it is, by default, allowed.
Be a Madisonian.

It finally happened. I have now been accused on OFCC of both being a cop-hater and then a cop-lover! Therefore, anyone making either accusation must not be paying attention.
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by djthomas »

techguy85 wrote:No, but R.C. 2923.12 (A) (2) makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun outside your home without a license, regardless of location.
So, you would simply be charged with violation of that division.
And don't forget 2923.12 (C)(2) that makes it explicitly clear that the license exception only applies if you are not in one of the enumerated locations of 2923.126 (B). Open carry in a church is absolutely allowed unless it is also a school. I don't really think there's any debate on that circumstance unless I'm missing something?
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by techguy85 »

djthomas wrote:
techguy85 wrote:No, but R.C. 2923.12 (A) (2) makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun outside your home without a license, regardless of location.
So, you would simply be charged with violation of that division.
And don't forget 2923.12 (C)(2) that makes it explicitly clear that the license exception only applies if you are not in one of the enumerated locations of 2923.126 (B). Open carry in a church is absolutely allowed unless it is also a school. I don't really think there's any debate on that circumstance unless I'm missing something?
I don't think there is debate. To sum up:
Open Carry in a non-posted church is legal. (so long as it isn't in another location off limits by statute like a school or Class D establishment). [Sadly my church meets in a school so even if I could get permission I would be out of luck.]
Concealed carry in a church is illegal without permission.
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by JustaShooter »

techguy85 wrote:
djthomas wrote:
techguy85 wrote:No, but R.C. 2923.12 (A) (2) makes it illegal to carry a concealed handgun outside your home without a license, regardless of location.
So, you would simply be charged with violation of that division.
And don't forget 2923.12 (C)(2) that makes it explicitly clear that the license exception only applies if you are not in one of the enumerated locations of 2923.126 (B). Open carry in a church is absolutely allowed unless it is also a school. I don't really think there's any debate on that circumstance unless I'm missing something?
I don't think there is debate. To sum up:
Open Carry in a non-posted church is legal. (so long as it isn't in another location off limits by statute like a school or Class D establishment). [Sadly my church meets in a school so even if I could get permission I would be out of luck.]
Concealed carry in a church is illegal without permission.
You are correct of course - and anyone who reads the applicable sections of ORC 2923 can see that is the case. Certainly makes one wonder what the motive might be that prompted the member who is disputing it to question this, especially as he is adamantly against the state licensing concealed carry.
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BobK
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by BobK »

After carrying in Church every Sunday for the last five years in Texas, I find it both irritating and ironic that just about the time it becomes legal in Ohio I will no longer be allowed to carry in my Church. Had dinner with the head of the council last weekend and told me they are going to post the buildings because of open carry. He had no idea I was a licensee who carries there all the time. :roll:
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by Mr. Glock »

It is somewhat ironic to see Texas all up in arms over open carry. I was in Dallas a couple of weeks ago, the end-of-the-world sign posting reminded me of Ohio right after CC passed.
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by 3FULLMAGS+1 »

BobK wrote:After carrying in Church every Sunday for the last five years in Texas, I find it both irritating and ironic that just about the time it becomes legal in Ohio I will no longer be allowed to carry in my Church. Had dinner with the head of the council last weekend and told me they are going to post the buildings because of open carry. He had no idea I was a licensee who carries there all the time. :roll:


Non of my business, but I would tell them if the signs go up , you will not come back. And I'd get as many others to stand w/ you as possible, but even if it's only you, I'd still leave.

I was asked to serve on the trustees board a few years back and at that time the issue of carry was being pushed by a few of us members and I said the issue of carry had to be settled, (meaning allowed), before I would except any position, as I would go elsewhere if I couldn't carry and I'm fairly involved in my church, ( whether that had anything to do with their decision to allow carry or not I don't know). Maybe it's time to start your own church, (for those who want to carry and advertise about starting it up).......no, I'm not joking! 8)


And by the way, I suppose you told him you didn't like it , right? What was his response to you carrying, I'd like to know?
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

My summary so far:

R.C. 2923.12 makes CCW illegal.

However, 2923.12 also gives an exception for CHL holders who are NOT in an enumerated location listed in 2923.126.

Churches are currently an enumerated location, thus making concealed carry there illegal.

This bill would remove churches as an enumerated location.

Thus, concealed carry in a church (with no CPZ sign posted) would be legal under the CHL exception in 2923.12.
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by Brian D. »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:My summary so far:

R.C. 2923.12 makes CCW illegal.

However, 2923.12 also gives an exception for CHL holders who are NOT in an enumerated location listed in 2923.126.

Churches are currently an enumerated location, thus making concealed carry there illegal.

This bill would remove churches as an enumerated location.

Thus, concealed carry in a church (with no CPZ sign posted) would be legal under the CHL exception in 2923.12.
Maybe you could go explain this to the guy that just started a new thread on this exact topic. But please, no snark, lest he pulls a Sonny Pruitt and...splits.
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by JustaShooter »

Brian D. wrote:Maybe you could go explain this to the guy that just started a new thread on this exact topic. But please, no snark, lest he pulls a Sonny Pruitt and...splits.
Or better yet, ignore it.
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by Luv2Camp »

So ehat kind of time frame are we looking at if this passes?
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Re: HB 452: Makes carrying in places of worship legal

Post by JustaShooter »

Luv2Camp wrote:So ehat kind of time frame are we looking at if this passes?
If past experience is any indication, we probably won't see any movement until after the election. It will then be bundled up with a few other pro-gun bills, will be passed and signed at the last minute and go into effect in March of next year.
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