OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

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Tweed Ring
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by Tweed Ring »

dynamike wrote:
Brian D. wrote:The reason I am pushing so hard for more action is because of the current makeup of our executive, legislative, and judicial branches of state government. The planets may not stay in such favorable alignment come next year, making advancements in gun rights much, much harder, or downright impossible.

You long timers already know that, sorry about the sermonizing.
SCC is sensitive to that. We're also sensitive to what reality is really like in Columbus. I'm not saying you're clueless. I just don't think we have the support for campus carry, or ever will, that you may think exists.

Not all Rs support our position.

I'm an active trunk. I don't think campus carry will be popular with our current OGA nor with Ohio's Constitutional Officers, all of whom want to be Governor or Senator. The political climate in Ohio is not, in my opinion, ready for campus carry. I wont won't fight against it but I won't expend any political capital campaigning for it.
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by Brian D. »

Tweed Ring wrote: I'm an active trunk. I don't think campus carry will be popular with our current OGA nor with Ohio's Constitutional Officers, all of whom want to be Governor or Senator. The political climate in Ohio is not, in my opinion, ready for campus carry. I wont won't fight against it but I won't expend any political capital campaigning for it.
It sure would be better to try now than when the (D)s get majority numbers in one or both houses (which means committee chairs too as you know). Not to mention the Governor's office, and a shift left in the Ohio Supreme Court makeup. Talk about a heavy lift!

Maybe we should just forget the whole thing and let the college kids get stabbed, beaten, shot, raped, etc. as part of their growth process into full adulthood. And as for the university employees? Oh well, collateral damage, sorry about your luck techguy85 and others.

Oh well I'm sort of howling at the wind on this forum anyhow, as the guys whose names are highlighted in red make such infrequent appearances, and say less. Can't have an OFCC-sanctioned much of anything without them.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Werz
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by Werz »

Tweed Ring wrote:I'm an active trunk. I don't think campus carry will be popular with our current OGA nor with Ohio's Constitutional Officers, all of whom want to be Governor or Senator. The political climate in Ohio is not, in my opinion, ready for campus carry. I wont won't fight against it but I won't expend any political capital campaigning for it.
Let's be clear on what the proposed legislation would and would not do:
  • It would not allow concealed carry on campus; that is already unlawful.
  • It would not allow any carry of firearms in properly posted university buildings; that is already unlawful.
  • It would have no effect on the General Assembly's current limitations of firearms on college and university campuses.
  • It would limit the ability of state universities to create student rules related to firearms and then call those rules "state law."
  • It would leave firearms legislation in the hands of the General Assembly, not in the hands university trustees.
  • It would create uniformity of firearms limitations amongst the many state universities.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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dynamike
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by dynamike »

Brian D. wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote: I'm an active trunk. I don't think campus carry will be popular with our current OGA nor with Ohio's Constitutional Officers, all of whom want to be Governor or Senator. The political climate in Ohio is not, in my opinion, ready for campus carry. I wont won't fight against it but I won't expend any political capital campaigning for it.
It sure would be better to try now than when the (D)s get majority numbers in one or both houses (which means committee chairs too as you know). Not to mention the Governor's office, and a shift left in the Ohio Supreme Court makeup. Talk about a heavy lift!

Maybe we should just forget the whole thing and let the college kids get stabbed, beaten, shot, raped, etc. as part of their growth process into full adulthood. And as for the university employees? Oh well, collateral damage, sorry about your luck techguy85 and others.

Oh well I'm sort of howling at the wind on this forum anyhow, as the guys whose names are highlighted in red make such infrequent appearances, and say less. Can't have an OFCC-sanctioned much of anything without them.
I've been at this for years now. This very game in particular. I'd be very surprised if we can even get someone to introduce a campus carry bill right now. I've had three drafted. I've had folks line up saying they would support it. But when it comes time for the rubber to meet to the road, it stops.

I fear an open carry walk on campus would cause the lobbyists employed by the university to push further restrictions onto college students. If it didn't and we actually got a university or two to change their ways, we'd have to go to every university in Ohio and do the same thing. Even then, it's not legally binding and they can change back with no fear of retribution.

We think at this time a legal challenge is our best course of action and will be refiling soon.

I appreciate your passion. Let's put it to use. Help us revive our UC chapter.
Mike

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dynamike
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by dynamike »

Werz wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:I'm an active trunk. I don't think campus carry will be popular with our current OGA nor with Ohio's Constitutional Officers, all of whom want to be Governor or Senator. The political climate in Ohio is not, in my opinion, ready for campus carry. I wont won't fight against it but I won't expend any political capital campaigning for it.
Let's be clear on what the proposed legislation would and would not do:
  • It would not allow concealed carry on campus; that is already unlawful.
  • It would not allow any carry of firearms in properly posted university buildings; that is already unlawful.
  • It would have no effect on the General Assembly's current limitations of firearms on college and university campuses.
  • It would limit the ability of state universities to create student rules related to firearms and then call those rules "state law."
  • It would leave firearms legislation in the hands of the General Assembly, not in the hands university trustees.
  • It would create uniformity of firearms limitations amongst the many state universities.
When I worked with Senator Kris Jordan on this issue, we authored a bill ammending 3345.21 to include any right protected by the US or Ohio Constitutions. At the time, he wasn't a fan of protecting just one right. Maybe he's changed his mind. I'm seeing him on Saturday and will discuss it.
Mike

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Brian D.
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by Brian D. »

dynamike wrote: I appreciate your passion. Let's put it to use. Help us revive our UC chapter.
Perhaps I could assist in some way, won't rule it out. But that would likely entail much time spent in CPZs, wrongly but lawfully disarmed. A practice I have eschewed for more than the last 11 years as a CH licensee.

My forte is the (figurative) eye poking of overbearing administrators and elected officials. Think of me as a modern day Sam..Adams or Clemens.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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dynamike
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by dynamike »

Brian D. wrote:
dynamike wrote: I appreciate your passion. Let's put it to use. Help us revive our UC chapter.
Perhaps I could assist in some way, won't rule it out. But that would likely entail much time spent in CPZs, wrongly but lawfully disarmed. A practice I have eschewed for more than the last 11 years as a CH licensee.

My forte is the (figurative) eye poking of overbearing administrators and elected officials. Think of me as a modern day Sam..Adams or Clemens.
Imagine a UC student poking the eyes of the administration...
Mike

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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

dynamike wrote:
Brian D. wrote:This isn't the first time someone has opined that I don't know politics in Columbus, I beg to differ.
Didn't opine as such. I just think you may be overestimating the favor this cause is receiving in Columbus, in particular the highest office. And when everyone at the statehouse wants to see him win the highest seat in the land, there's a lack of motivation to put him in an awkward position.
The person in that 'highest office' is a lame duck and, apparently, pretty lame in debates.

Let's see what we can get passed in the GA and sent to our Guber's desk.

If he doesn't want to sign any "guns & schools" legislation on his way out, so be it.

Maybe our GA can override another veto regarding gun rights.
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dynamike
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by dynamike »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
dynamike wrote:
Brian D. wrote:This isn't the first time someone has opined that I don't know politics in Columbus, I beg to differ.
Didn't opine as such. I just think you may be overestimating the favor this cause is receiving in Columbus, in particular the highest office. And when everyone at the statehouse wants to see him win the highest seat in the land, there's a lack of motivation to put him in an awkward position.
The person in that 'highest office' is a lame duck and, apparently, pretty lame in debates.

Let's see what we can get passed in the GA and sent to our Guber's desk.

If he doesn't want to sign any "guns & schools" legislation on his way out, so be it.

Maybe our GA can override another veto regarding gun rights.
Don't forget that folks in Columbus want to see him in Washington. I've been told more than once, "Kasich won't sign that bill, so I don't think we should introduce it."
Mike

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Werz
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by Werz »

dynamike wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
dynamike wrote:I just think you may be overestimating the favor this cause is receiving in Columbus, in particular the highest office. And when everyone at the statehouse wants to see him win the highest seat in the land, there's a lack of motivation to put him in an awkward position.
The person in that 'highest office' is a lame duck and, apparently, pretty lame in debates.

Let's see what we can get passed in the GA and sent to our Guber's desk.

If he doesn't want to sign any "guns & schools" legislation on his way out, so be it.

Maybe our GA can override another veto regarding gun rights.
Don't forget that folks in Columbus want to see him in Washington. I've been told more than once, "Kasich won't sign that bill, so I don't think we should introduce it."
Maybe we need to use the right leverage, and introduce a well-known, real-world example: the shooting at Umpqua Community College. Oregon allowed campus concealed carry, but universities were allowed to override that. As a result, nine people died. See the discussion here. Yes, I can look up the legal points, but what's better than John Lott testifying at a state senate hearing?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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dynamike
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by dynamike »

Werz wrote:Maybe we need to use the right leverage, and introduce a well-known, real-world example: the shooting at Umpqua Community College. Oregon allowed campus concealed carry, but universities were allowed to override that. As a result, nine people died. See the discussion here. Yes, I can look up the legal points, but what's better than John Lott testifying at a state senate hearing?
I'll float this by some folks this weekend.
Mike

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Brian D.
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by Brian D. »

Maybe you can also ask how many students and faculty at the university are recent imports from Syr...oh never mind. Honestly, listing potential dangers to the innocent besides the everyday run of the mill predatory criminal scumbags isn't really out of bounds is it?
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Werz
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by Werz »

Brian D. wrote:Maybe you can also ask how many students and faculty at the university are recent imports from Syr...oh never mind. Honestly, listing potential dangers to the innocent besides the everyday run of the mill predatory criminal scumbags isn't really out of bounds is it?
Of course, you could always ask them to imagine how the audience members at Le Bataclán felt as they watched the killers reloading their AKs, knowing they were helpless to do anything about it.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by shootsome »

It seems the most overreaching of OSUs policies is the prohibition of firearms in off campus housing (see http://offcampus.osu.edu/posts/document ... 5-2016.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) . How can a university prohibit lawful activities undertaken by students off-campus?
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Re: OSU Lawsuit Dismissed ... Another Solution

Post by JediSkipdogg »

shootsome wrote:It seems the most overreaching of OSUs policies is the prohibition of firearms in off campus housing (see http://offcampus.osu.edu/posts/document ... 5-2016.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) . How can a university prohibit lawful activities undertaken by students off-campus?
Because OSU thinks they own they lives of every student that goes there. It's a college I'll never let my kids go to.
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