Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

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Bruenor
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Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by Bruenor »

The City solicitor was pretty sure this would not run afoul of Ohio statewide preemption. he did reject quite a few other proposals from council that would have. Mr Franklin is pro gun, and concealed carry, and a really nice guy to talk with.

http://fox8.com/2015/08/04/ashtabula-ma ... ooks-real/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Ashtabula City council has made it illegal to brandish a replica gun that looks real.

Council passed legislation Monday night making it a crime if someone is caught pointing or brandishing a fake gun. The legislation takes effect immediately.

The city solicitor Michael Franklin says they have seen an increase in people using fake guns to commit crime.
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Re: Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by pirateguy191 »

I don't think replicas have anything to do with 9.68.
(1) "Firearm" means any deadly weapon capable of expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of an explosive or combustible propellant. "Firearm" includes an unloaded firearm, and any firearm that is inoperable but that can readily be rendered operable.

(2) When determining whether a firearm is capable of expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of an explosive or combustible propellant, the trier of fact may rely upon circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, the representations and actions of the individual exercising control over the firearm.
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Re: Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by Werz »

Bruenor wrote:The City solicitor was pretty sure this would not run afoul of Ohio statewide preemption. he did reject quite a few other proposals from council that would have. Mr Franklin is pro gun, and concealed carry, and a really nice guy to talk with.

http://fox8.com/2015/08/04/ashtabula-ma ... ooks-real/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Ashtabula City council has made it illegal to brandish a replica gun that looks real.

Council passed legislation Monday night making it a crime if someone is caught pointing or brandishing a fake gun. The legislation takes effect immediately.

The city solicitor Michael Franklin says they have seen an increase in people using fake guns to commit crime.
The problem with this is that it would be counterproductive to charge someone with it if they do commit a serious crime with a fake gun.

For instance, one can be charged with Aggravated Robbery for robbing someone with a pellet pistol. It would not qualify for a firearm specification, but there is a boatload of case law which states that, if the pellet gun is heavy enough to use as a bludgeon, it still qualifies as a deadly weapon, and there are many documented cases where that has happened, particularly if someone calls the robber's bluff.

Adding a misdemeanor replica firearm charge would imply that the first degree felony shouldn't be taken seriously "because it was just a fake gun."
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Re: Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by techmike »

So does this include AirSoft? A little kid with a cap gun?
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Re: Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by TSiWRX »

Well, some guy recently did enter a movie theater with some pepper spray, a hatchet, and an airsoft replica....

And let's not forget just how big "little kiddies" can be: I met one just last night - he's only 12, and he's well over 6 ft. tall. It's easy for us to lay the blame on a police officer for such shootings, but what happens when you, as a legally armed citizen, round that corner on a dark side-street only to see a large male bearing down on you, with what at first glance (and really, is there time for a detailed look, then, particularly in relation to what virtually every firearms/self-defense community has discussed regarding "The Tueller Drill?") seems to be a firearm. Will you - will I - really have the time or the wherewithal to realize that it's just two pre-teens playing a game of cops-and-robbers in the dark?

We no longer live in that idyllic 1950s small-town America. The last time I looked for a replacement for my Entertech water-pistol at the local big-box store, I came up short because they'd been taken off the market (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertech" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) for just this reason. That happened 30 years ago. I think it's about time people moved-on from the belief that kids can play with seemingly real replicas, with impunity.

Overall, while I think that it's good to make brandishing a replica illegal, in reading Werz's excellent reply, I think there's definitely room for improvement and refinement.
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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Re: Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by techmike »

TSiWRX wrote:Well, some guy recently did enter a movie theater with some pepper spray, a hatchet, and an airsoft replica....

And let's not forget just how big "little kiddies" can be: I met one just last night - he's only 12, and he's well over 6 ft. tall. It's easy for us to lay the blame on a police officer for such shootings, but what happens when you, as a legally armed citizen, round that corner on a dark side-street only to see a large male bearing down on you, with what at first glance (and really, is there time for a detailed look, then, particularly in relation to what virtually every firearms/self-defense community has discussed regarding "The Tueller Drill?") seems to be a firearm. Will you - will I - really have the time or the wherewithal to realize that it's just two pre-teens playing a game of cops-and-robbers in the dark?

We no longer live in that idyllic 1950s small-town America. The last time I looked for a replacement for my Entertech water-pistol at the local big-box store, I came up short because they'd been taken off the market (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertech" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) for just this reason. That happened 30 years ago. I think it's about time people moved-on from the belief that kids can play with seemingly real replicas, with impunity.

Overall, while I think that it's good to make brandishing a replica illegal, in reading Werz's excellent reply, I think there's definitely room for improvement and refinement.
Yeah, That is not what I meant at all. I have no interest in going back to the 50's. Just wondering at how far down the list does "replica" go.... Gun shaped pop tarts? I see nothing good from this type of legislation at all. Replica guns do not commit crimes, and laws against replica guns will not stop crimes from happening. We have more than enough laws on the books to regulate nearly any activity, why do we need this one?
"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
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Re: Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by TSiWRX »

^ Ah, I see where you're going. :) My apologies, I misunderstood.
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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Re: Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by CroManGun »

techmike wrote:So does this include AirSoft? A little kid with a cap gun?
"The city solicitor Michael Franklin says they have seen an increase in people using fake guns to commit crime."

I think that narrows it down a bit.
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Re: Ashtabula makes it illegal to brandish a replica firearm

Post by TSiWRX »

^ And "kids" have been known to fit that bill, too. I think "people" was a good choice of words.
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
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