Individual Rights vs. Property rights POLL

[gaptrick]

With HR180 in the works, and this being apparently such a divisive issue between the two camps, I created this poll to get a feel for where the people on these forums fall in these regards.

There are a couple of active threads discussing this issue already so no real need to elaborate on the discussion here, but a vote either way would be appreciated.

Which way do the scales of justice tip for you? Thanks.

[pirateguy191]

So far, employees are winning 7 to Tweed.

[Sevens]

What I am most in favor of is LESS laws, less red tape, and less govt nose under the tent. As has been said a gujillion times, Ohio is an at-will state. If the powers that be gave me the ability to decide the fate, I would never allow 50,000 different dumb little laws to outline every dumb little scenario.

Instead, my law would state that the employer's "rights" end where my vehicle begins if the employer willfully offers me a place to park. And if the employer doesn't like that, his option is to rip up that asphalt and plant sunflowers. Then he can go hire a full crew of manpower and a few of them will obviously be bus drivers that go out every day at 5am to gather all the human resources.

[Tweed Ring]

Tweed just voted.

Tweed knows where the important votes are counted... in the OGA.

[Tweed Ring]

What I am most in favor of is LESS laws, less red tape, and less govt nose under the tent. As has been said a gujillion times, Ohio is an at-will state. If the powers that be gave me the ability to decide the fate, I would never allow 50,000 different dumb little laws to outline every dumb little scenario.

Instead, my law would state that the employer's "rights" end where my vehicle begins if the employer willfully offers me a place to park. And if the employer doesn't like that, his option is to rip up that asphalt and plant sunflowers. Then he can go hire a full crew of manpower and a few of them will obviously be bus drivers that go out every day at 5am to gather all the human resources.

If this becomes law, I would advise employers to ask employees to sign a waiver regarding personal weapons, in employee's vehicles, parked on the employer's property. It's not employer's responsibility to transport employees to work.

[Sevens]

Keys are a weapon. Ball point pen is pretty nasty. Got a tire iron in the trunk. Many have been willfully murdered -by- a car.

Hey, for a period of time around the turn of the century, countless bodies stacked up as a result of influenza and we have folks bringing that not just on to the property, but right in to the facility. (oh the horror)

Hey, I think we can settle on this somewhere. My Glock is a big no-no, but my Hammerli-built .22cal rimfire pistol outfitted with target grips, sights and phenomenal trigger are a-okay, right?!

[Tweed Ring]

Keys are a weapon. Ball point pen is pretty nasty. Got a tire iron in the trunk. Many have been willfully murdered -by- a car.

Hey, for a period of time around the turn of the century, countless bodies stacked up as a result of influenza and we have folks bringing that not just on to the property, but right in to the facility. (oh the horror)

Hey, I think we can settle on this somewhere. My Glock is a big no-no, but my Hammerli-built .22cal rimfire pistol outfitted with target grips, sights and phenomenal trigger are a-okay, right?!

Lots of straw men. Straw men tend to get burned. Firearms banned means all firearms.

Count the votes at the OGA. That's clearly important.

[curmudgeon3]

Tweed just voted.

Tweed knows where the important votes are counted... in the OGA.

Negative; in the Governor's office, where they become signed into law. (Damn ! Wish I hadn't gone down that rat hole. )

[Tweed Ring]

Tweed just voted.

Tweed knows where the important votes are counted... in the OGA.

Negative; in the Governor's office, where they become signed into law. (Damn ! Wish I hadn't gone down that rat hole. )

Doesn't ever get placed on the governor's desk unless it is first passed by the OGA. Governor can love, hate, or be ambivalent to a proposal; unless it is blessed by leadership and goes through both houses, it ain't gonna' happen.

[Sevens]

Last I checked, this is a discussion forum mostly populated with pro-gun "regular folks" and definitely not the floor of the General Assembly.

I do wonder...
How would Rickey Henderson fare in politics?

[curmudgeon3]

Tweed just voted.

Tweed knows where the important votes are counted... in the OGA.

Negative; in the Governor's office, where they become signed into law. (Damn ! Wish I hadn't gone down that rat hole. )

Doesn't ever get placed on the governor's desk unless it is first passed by the OGA. Governor can love, hate, or be ambivalent to a proposal; unless it is blessed by leadership and goes through both houses, it ain't gonna' happen.

And awa-a-a-y we go. It doesn't get to an OGA vote until all of the Governor's election campaigns have been exhausted and His higher aspirations have been determined.

[Tweed Ring]

Last I checked, this is a discussion forum mostly populated with pro-gun "regular folks" and definitely not the floor of the General Assembly.

I do wonder...
How would Rickey Henderson fare in politics?

Talkers. OK. There ends the lesson, again.

[WY_Not]

For all of you sooo ready and willing to agress against someone else and infringe on their rights... karma is a {inappropriate language}. If you don't care about someone else's rights why should they care about yours?

[Curzyk]

In the case of individual rights VS property rights, I feel that property rights win because the individual already has the right to not enter the property. The issue here seems to be that it's inconvenient to the individual to seek employment elsewhere. I don't feel that the inconvenience warrants infringement on property rights when an alternative exists. And yes, my employer is among those that prohibits firearms from their property, including parking facilities.

Perhaps I am not understanding something and it isn't as simple as that. If so, I would really like to know more.

[JonasM]

I truly understand the desire to create a line of separation between the employer's property and the interior of one's vehicle, and would love to see some good justification that enables it. However, one fact keeps getting in the way, and Curzyk nailed it - entering the property is optional. I just don't see how the principle could be carved out given the circumstances. I am very sympathetic to the desire, though.

With very limited exceptions (emergencies, for example) individual rights trump all. I see no philosophical justification for any other position.

Yes, individual rights are legally trumped all the time. Doesn't make it right.