SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

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Tweed Ring
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by Tweed Ring »

Said higher office. Didn't identify which office. This governor is playing the game very professionally and very skillfully. We shall see what portends.

The bit of legislation we have been debating, herein, can hurt the governor from a number of directions. Therefore it will probably die in committee.
walnut red
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by walnut red »

Qfac wrote:Back in 2004 when the first version was signed into law there was verbiage at protected Employers already in there. Would this not be applicable for this as well?

"Private employers are immune from civil liability for any loss related to a licensee bringing a handgun onto the premises or property of the private employer, unless the private employer acted with malicious purpose, and for any loss related to the private employer’s decision to permit or prohibit licensees from bringing a handgun onto the premises or property of the private employer"

This is really quite simple. All we need is the "or prohibit" struck from the legislation. This does not trample anyones property rights into the ground but it does give a slight degree of accountability if you try and restrict someone elses rights. Not a complete fix but a step in the right direction.
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Tweed Ring wrote:Said higher office. Didn't identify which office. This governor is playing the game very professionally and very skillfully. We shall see what portends.

The bit of legislation we have been debating, herein, can hurt the governor from a number of directions. Therefore it will probably die in committee.
If he wants to play the game, he can simply refuse to sign the bill when it gets to his desk, like this:

Reporter: "Why didn't you veto that bill?"

Kasich: "If I thought a veto would work, I would have...but the Ohio General Assembly has shown, within this decade, that they are willing to override any attempt to veto a pro-gun bill."
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Tweed Ring
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by Tweed Ring »

Signing such legislation, or vetoing same, or even a pocket veto is fraught with implications. He has friends on the ORC; perhaps one or more of said friends will kill this proposal in committee.
curmudgeon3
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by curmudgeon3 »

If you mean friends on the OGA, those friends might eventually be accountable to the voters for "killing" an individual- freedom bill. The NRA will be checking the Legislators' voting records when the smoke clears.
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by JediSkipdogg »

curmudgeon3 wrote:If you mean friends on the OGA, those friends might eventually be accountable to the voters for "killing" an individual freedom bill. The NRA will be checking the Legislators' voting records when the smoke clears.
The problem is gun owners don't turn out in droves for elections. So you could have someone that is 200% pro gun and stands up saying he will bring nationwide carry to the United States and it won't mean a darn thing. Being for gun bills can actually hurt someone though as the Brady campaign will turn voters against those people with superb marketing campaigns. One could lose an election if they spew too much pro-gun rhetoric which is why I think even George Bush #2 kept it pretty quiet during his times of campaigning.
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curmudgeon3
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by curmudgeon3 »

SB 180 isn't about rhetoric, it's about individual freedoms to defend oneself on their way to and from their place of employment.
(Jedi, you do recall this forum, OFCC, is a pro-gun action group; right ?) :)
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BobK
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by BobK »

curmudgeon3 wrote:SB 180 isn't about rhetoric, it's about individual freedoms to defend oneself on their way to and from their place of employment.
The problem with this bill is we can't even get agreement in these forums whether or not it is a good idea, much less out there in the real world that is far less friendly to gun rights.

Personally, I'd let this bill get put aside and push for gun rights that everyone can agree upon. How about removing the restrictions on concealed carry in all the places enumerated in RC 2923.126, except anyplace that is secured by guards and metal detectors (like a jail or court). For example, start by allowing carry in all the buildings we help pay for.
R.C. 2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.

(B) A valid concealed handgun license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:

(1) A police station, sheriff's office, or state highway patrol station, premises controlled by the bureau of criminal identification and investigation,a state correctional institution, jail, workhouse, or other detention facility, the secured portion of an airport passenger terminal, or an institution that is maintained, operated, managed, and governed pursuant to division (A) of section 5119.14 of the Revised Code or division (A)(1) of section 5123.03 of the Revised Code;

(2) A school safety zone if the licensee's carrying the concealed handgun is in violation of section 2923.122 of the Revised Code;

(3) The secured portion of a A courthouse or anotherbuilding or structure in which a courtroom is located, in violation of section 2923.123 of the Revised Code;

(4) Any premises or open air arena for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code if the licensee's carrying the concealed handgun is in violation of section 2923.121 of the Revised Code;

(5) Any premises owned or leased by any public or private college, university, or other institution of higher education, unless the handgun is in a locked motor vehicle or the licensee is in the immediate process of placing the handgun in a locked motor vehicle;

(6) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, unless the church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship posts or permits otherwise;

(7) A child day-care center, a type A family day-care home, or a type B family day-care home, except that this division does not prohibit a licensee who resides in a type A family day-care home or a type B family day-care home from carrying a concealed handgun at any time in any part of the home that is not dedicated or used for day-care purposes, or from carrying a concealed handgun in a part of the home that is dedicated or used for day-care purposes at any time during which no children, other than children of that licensee, are in the home;

(8) An aircraft that is in, or intended for operation in, foreign air transportation, interstate air transportation, intrastate air transportation, or the transportation of mail by aircraft;

(9) Any building that is a government facility of this state or a political subdivision of this state and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of this section;

(10) A place in which federal law prohibits the carrying of handguns.
Next, enact a "Motorist Self Defense Act" to extend the same rights to be armed in a motor vehicle that are currently allowed to every Ohioan in their home. We have a God-given right to self defense in our home, and we should have the same God-given right to self defense in a motor vehicle. Strip out all the extraneous garbage that currently exists regarding loaded long guns or handguns in a vehicle!
2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.

(A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.

(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.

(C)
(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;

(4) If the firearm is at least twenty-four inches in overall length as measured from the muzzle to the part of the stock furthest from the muzzle and if the barrel is at least eighteen inches in length, either in plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.


(D) (C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun firearm in a motor vehicle if, at the time of that transportation or possession, any of the following applies:

(1) The person is under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or a combination of them.

(2) The person's whole blood, blood serum or plasma, breath, or urine contains a concentration of alcohol, a listed controlled substance, or a listed metabolite of a controlled substance prohibited for persons operating a vehicle, as specified in division (A) of section 4511.19 of the Revised Code, regardless of whether the person at the time of the transportation or possession as described in this division is the operator of or a passenger in the motor vehicle.

(E) (D) No person who has been issued a concealed handgun license, who is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose or is the driver or an occupant of a commercial motor vehicle that is stopped by an employee of the motor carrier enforcement unit for the purposes defined in section 5503.34 of the Revised Code, and who is transporting or has a loaded handgun firearm in the motor vehicle or commercial motor vehicle in any manner, shall do any of the following:

(1) Fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the person then possesses or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle;

(2) Fail to promptly inform the employee of the unit who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the person then possesses or has a loaded handgun in the commercial motor vehicle;

(3) Knowingly fail to remain in the motor vehicle while stopped or knowingly fail to keep the person's hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the failure is pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer;

(4) K
knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun firearm by touching it with the person's hands or fingers in the motor vehicle at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person has contact with the loaded handgun firearm pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;

(5) Knowingly disregard or fail to comply with any lawful order of any law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, including, but not limited to, a specific order to the person to keep the person's hands in plain sight.
Of course, someone will need to perform similar surgery for RC 2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons and RC 2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone. As far as RC 2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions., I'd be satisfied with one small change:
RC 2923.121 (B)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(e) Any person who is carrying a valid concealed handgun license, as long as the person is not consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.

It is already illegal to be under the influence while possessing a loaded firearm. No need to make it an additional felony here.
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Tweed Ring
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by Tweed Ring »

curmudgeon3 wrote:If you mean friends on the OGA, those friends might eventually be accountable to the voters for "killing" an individual- freedom bill. The NRA will be checking the Legislators' voting records when the smoke clears.
Members of the OGA have been voting against and/or killing legislation for years at the behest of governors with little or no repercussions.
curmudgeon3
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by curmudgeon3 »

Tweed Ring wrote:
curmudgeon3 wrote:If you mean friends on the OGA, those friends might eventually be accountable to the voters for "killing" an individual- freedom bill. The NRA will be checking the Legislators' voting records when the smoke clears.
Members of the OGA have been voting against and/or killing legislation for years at the behest of governors with little or no repercussions.
Totally agree.
Bama.45
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by Bama.45 »

BobK wrote:
curmudgeon3 wrote:SB 180 isn't about rhetoric, it's about individual freedoms to defend oneself on their way to and from their place of employment.
The problem with this bill is we can't even get agreement in these forums whether or not it is a good idea, much less out there in the real world that is far less friendly to gun rights.

Personally, I'd let this bill get put aside and push for gun rights that everyone can agree upon. How about removing the restrictions on concealed carry in all the places enumerated in RC 2923.126, except anyplace that is secured by guards and metal detectors (like a jail or court). For example, start by allowing carry in all the buildings we help pay for.
R.C. 2923.126 Duties of licensed individual.

(B) A valid concealed handgun license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:

(1) A police station, sheriff's office, or state highway patrol station, premises controlled by the bureau of criminal identification and investigation,a state correctional institution, jail, workhouse, or other detention facility, the secured portion of an airport passenger terminal, or an institution that is maintained, operated, managed, and governed pursuant to division (A) of section 5119.14 of the Revised Code or division (A)(1) of section 5123.03 of the Revised Code;

(2) A school safety zone if the licensee's carrying the concealed handgun is in violation of section 2923.122 of the Revised Code;

(3) The secured portion of a A courthouse or anotherbuilding or structure in which a courtroom is located, in violation of section 2923.123 of the Revised Code;

(4) Any premises or open air arena for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code if the licensee's carrying the concealed handgun is in violation of section 2923.121 of the Revised Code;

(5) Any premises owned or leased by any public or private college, university, or other institution of higher education, unless the handgun is in a locked motor vehicle or the licensee is in the immediate process of placing the handgun in a locked motor vehicle;

(6) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, unless the church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship posts or permits otherwise;

(7) A child day-care center, a type A family day-care home, or a type B family day-care home, except that this division does not prohibit a licensee who resides in a type A family day-care home or a type B family day-care home from carrying a concealed handgun at any time in any part of the home that is not dedicated or used for day-care purposes, or from carrying a concealed handgun in a part of the home that is dedicated or used for day-care purposes at any time during which no children, other than children of that licensee, are in the home;

(8) An aircraft that is in, or intended for operation in, foreign air transportation, interstate air transportation, intrastate air transportation, or the transportation of mail by aircraft;

(9) Any building that is a government facility of this state or a political subdivision of this state and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of this section;

(10) A place in which federal law prohibits the carrying of handguns.
Next, enact a "Motorist Self Defense Act" to extend the same rights to be armed in a motor vehicle that are currently allowed to every Ohioan in their home. We have a God-given right to self defense in our home, and we should have the same God-given right to self defense in a motor vehicle. Strip out all the extraneous garbage that currently exists regarding loaded long guns or handguns in a vehicle!
2923.16 Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle.

(A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.

(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.

(C)
(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;

(4) If the firearm is at least twenty-four inches in overall length as measured from the muzzle to the part of the stock furthest from the muzzle and if the barrel is at least eighteen inches in length, either in plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.


(D) (C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun firearm in a motor vehicle if, at the time of that transportation or possession, any of the following applies:

(1) The person is under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or a combination of them.

(2) The person's whole blood, blood serum or plasma, breath, or urine contains a concentration of alcohol, a listed controlled substance, or a listed metabolite of a controlled substance prohibited for persons operating a vehicle, as specified in division (A) of section 4511.19 of the Revised Code, regardless of whether the person at the time of the transportation or possession as described in this division is the operator of or a passenger in the motor vehicle.

(E) (D) No person who has been issued a concealed handgun license, who is the driver or an occupant of a motor vehicle that is stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose or is the driver or an occupant of a commercial motor vehicle that is stopped by an employee of the motor carrier enforcement unit for the purposes defined in section 5503.34 of the Revised Code, and who is transporting or has a loaded handgun firearm in the motor vehicle or commercial motor vehicle in any manner, shall do any of the following:

(1) Fail to promptly inform any law enforcement officer who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the person then possesses or has a loaded handgun in the motor vehicle;

(2) Fail to promptly inform the employee of the unit who approaches the vehicle while stopped that the person has been issued a concealed handgun license and that the person then possesses or has a loaded handgun in the commercial motor vehicle;

(3) Knowingly fail to remain in the motor vehicle while stopped or knowingly fail to keep the person's hands in plain sight at any time after any law enforcement officer begins approaching the person while stopped and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the failure is pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by a law enforcement officer;

(4) K
knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun firearm by touching it with the person's hands or fingers in the motor vehicle at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching and before the law enforcement officer leaves, unless the person has contact with the loaded handgun firearm pursuant to and in accordance with directions given by the law enforcement officer;

(5) Knowingly disregard or fail to comply with any lawful order of any law enforcement officer given while the motor vehicle is stopped, including, but not limited to, a specific order to the person to keep the person's hands in plain sight.
Of course, someone will need to perform similar surgery for RC 2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons and RC 2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone. As far as RC 2923.121 Possession of firearm in beer liquor permit premises - prohibition, exceptions., I'd be satisfied with one small change:
RC 2923.121 (B)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(e) Any person who is carrying a valid concealed handgun license, as long as the person is not consuming beer or intoxicating liquor or under the influence of alcohol or a drug of abuse.

It is already illegal to be under the influence while possessing a loaded firearm. No need to make it an additional felony here.

+1
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Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
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curmudgeon3
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by curmudgeon3 »

Oh, I understand perfectly; our larger group, the GOP, is lovingly referred to lately as the 49/51'ers on internal issues.
Tweed Ring
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by Tweed Ring »

We have expended lots of time and energy on this issue. Yet, Ohio gun rights advocates will never have the clout to move this, and/or similar legislation through our OGA, until we accept the fact that:

Money buys access to pols in leadership.

We need to organize, and raise money to buy access.

For whatever reason, Ohio gun owners seem to be loathe to spend money on political activity, compared to what our opponents raise and spend.
curmudgeon3
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by curmudgeon3 »

Quid pro quo.
Tweed Ring
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Re: SB 180: Employer parking lot bill

Post by Tweed Ring »

curmudgeon3 wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:
curmudgeon3 wrote:If you mean friends on the OGA, those friends might eventually be accountable to the voters for "killing" an individual- freedom bill. The NRA will be checking the Legislators' voting records when the smoke clears.
Members of the OGA have been voting against and/or killing legislation for years at the behest of governors with little or no repercussions.
Totally agree.

Soon. It will be very soon.
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