That's what ya'lls calls a "civil issue" right there. I call those in to my dispatcher as "Options explained. 10-8"Werz wrote:Please note that is not a fine distinction. I have seen problems with this on many occasions regarding "hillbilly car loans": the "seller" gives the "buyer" the car and wants the "buyer" to pay $xxx per month until the price is paid, and then the "seller" will sign over title. If the "buyer" quits paying, the "seller" calls the police and claims Grand Theft of a Motor Vehicle. We usually tell the "seller" that we will consider that charge, just as soon as the "seller" pleads guilty an unclassified felony under R.C. 4505.19(A)(2). That is usually followed by a long silence on the part of the "seller."
Castle doctrine question
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- djthomas
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Re: Castle doctrine question
- WY_Not
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Re: Castle doctrine question
Not trying to be a wise-butt here. I tend to drive my vehicles as long as possible and wring every mile I can from them before scrapping them and have never been involved in such convoluted schemes so don't know all the ins and outs of titles and registration. But when I buy new vehicles and take out a loan on them, I get a copy of the title, the bank holds the title until it is paid off, and they send me the real title once it is paid off.
How would a private individual holding on to the title until the loan is paid be any different than the bank holding it till the loan is paid off? Or is it that with a bank the title is transferred but with a lien on it?
How would a private individual holding on to the title until the loan is paid be any different than the bank holding it till the loan is paid off? Or is it that with a bank the title is transferred but with a lien on it?
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- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Castle doctrine question
The last clause of the section Werz quoted says, "except as otherwise provided in this chapter;"WY_Not wrote:Not trying to be a wise-butt here. I tend to drive my vehicles as long as possible and wring every mile I can from them before scrapping them and have never been involved in such convoluted schemes so don't know all the ins and outs of titles and registration. But when I buy new vehicles and take out a loan on them, I get a copy of the title, the bank holds the title until it is paid off, and they send me the real title once it is paid off.
How would a private individual holding on to the title until the loan is paid be any different than the bank holding it till the loan is paid off? Or is it that with a bank the title is transferred but with a lien on it?
And here is a provision otherwise: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4505.12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Memorandum certificate)
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Re: Castle doctrine question
MWSY,
I can write a manual telling you how to take an aircraft apart, troubleshoot and repair it, and put it back together but ORC usually reads like Greek to me usually. So, I'll let this one drop before it derails the thread any further.
I can write a manual telling you how to take an aircraft apart, troubleshoot and repair it, and put it back together but ORC usually reads like Greek to me usually. So, I'll let this one drop before it derails the thread any further.
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Samuel Adams wrote:If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
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Re: Castle doctrine question
Ok then how can a rental car or leased car not be considered yours while you are paying for it?... With a rental you have a contract with the company you rented from which to me is no different than the contract that you have with the bank on a financed car...And yeah, you "own" the car as long as you're paying for it... Quit paying for it though and see. How long you "own" it... You are basically renting it until it is paid for..Werz wrote:No, you own it. Title is in your name. The bank has lien which is noted on the title.Bama.45 wrote:The same could be said about any car you have financed actually... Because the bank owns it until you make the last payment.Metal1 wrote:If a Rental is not covered then what's to say that a Leased vehicle is? After all, you do not technically "own" it.
Please note that is not a fine distinction. I have seen problems with this on many occasions regarding "hillbilly car loans": the "seller" gives the "buyer" the car and wants the "buyer" to pay $xxx per month until the price is paid, and then the "seller" will sign over title. If the "buyer" quits paying, the "seller" calls the police and claims Grand Theft of a Motor Vehicle. We usually tell the "seller" that we will consider that charge, just as soon as the "seller" pleads guilty an unclassified felony under R.C. 4505.19(A)(2). That is usually followed by a long silence on the part of the "seller."
"Lord, make my hand fast and accurate.
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
- Werz
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Re: Castle doctrine question
Werz wrote:No, you own it. Title is in your name. The bank has lien which is noted on the title.Bama.45 wrote:The same could be said about any car you have financed actually... Because the bank owns it until you make the last payment.Metal1 wrote:If a Rental is not covered then what's to say that a Leased vehicle is? After all, you do not technically "own" it.
Please note that is not a fine distinction. I have seen problems with this on many occasions regarding "hillbilly car loans": the "seller" gives the "buyer" the car and wants the "buyer" to pay $xxx per month until the price is paid, and then the "seller" will sign over title. If the "buyer" quits paying, the "seller" calls the police and claims Grand Theft of a Motor Vehicle. We usually tell the "seller" that we will consider that charge, just as soon as the "seller" pleads guilty an unclassified felony under R.C. 4505.19(A)(2). That is usually followed by a long silence on the part of the "seller."
I never said that a rental car was not included. My suspicion is that it would be, if you have rented it for your own use, to the exclusion of all others. That proposition has never been tested, and the likelihood of those circumstances creating any case law is fairly low.Bama.45 wrote:Ok then how can a rental car or leased car not be considered yours while you are paying for it?... With a rental you have a contract with the company you rented from which to me is no different than the contract that you have with the bank on a financed car...And yeah, you "own" the car as long as you're paying for it... Quit paying for it though and see. How long you "own" it... You are basically renting it until it is paid for..
What I said was that renting a car and financing a car are not the same thing because, when you finance a car, the title actually passes to you.
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Re: Castle doctrine question
That is true but you still don't physically have the actual title so you?... Just what is called a memorandum title... The bank or finance company has the physical title(or at least they do in Alabama) then once the car is paid for they mail you the title... I have always heard possession is 9/10ths of the law... If you had the physical title, you could not pay for the car and the bank wouldn't have any recourse as far as repossession... But I agree that a rental car should be considered yours while the rental agreement is in effect... I know you never said it wasn't but some have.
"Lord, make my hand fast and accurate.
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
Let my aim be true and my hand faster
than those who would seek to destroy me.
Grant me victory over my foes and those who wish to do harm to me and mine.
Let not my last thought be 'If I only had my gun."
And Lord, if today is truly the day you call me home
Let me die in a pile of empty brass."
Amen
U.S. Marines 01-07
~The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.~ Thomas Jefferson
- JediSkipdogg
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Re: Castle doctrine question
Here's something to should help differentiate the two...Bama.45 wrote:That is true but you still don't physically have the actual title so you?... Just what is called a memorandum title... The bank or finance company has the physical title(or at least they do in Alabama) then once the car is paid for they mail you the title... I have always heard possession is 9/10ths of the law... If you had the physical title, you could not pay for the car and the bank wouldn't have any recourse as far as repossession... But I agree that a rental car should be considered yours while the rental agreement is in effect... I know you never said it wasn't but some have.
Buying/Leasing a vehicle and failing to meet the guidelines (failing to make payments) of the purchase/lease would be a civil violation and subject to repo. Repo is civil, not criminal.
Renting/borrowing a vehicle and failing to meet the guidelines (i.e. keeping it longer than one should) of the rent/borrow agreement is a criminal violation called Unauthorized Use of a Vehicle.
So the courts already look at the two totally differently.
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Re: Castle doctrine question
When you finance a vehicle, you receive a memorandum certificate of title. The lender holds the original as collateral and it shows its lien on the title (as well as on the MCoT). The title is in your name. If the lender repos the vehicle due to non-payment, he must go through a process to have the vehicle sold to satisfy the lien. You may cure the default and breach of contract and regain the vehicle (and the title) up until the time it is sold by the lender. This is quite a bit different from a rental and even more different from Werz' "hillbilly" financing (which I used to see quite a bit of myself). In fact there were some "buy here, pay here" places that did exactly that kind of financing until the law changed.Bama.45 wrote:That is true but you still don't physically have the actual title so you?... Just what is called a memorandum title... The bank or finance company has the physical title(or at least they do in Alabama) then once the car is paid for they mail you the title... I have always heard possession is 9/10ths of the law... If you had the physical title, you could not pay for the car and the bank wouldn't have any recourse as far as repossession... But I agree that a rental car should be considered yours while the rental agreement is in effect... I know you never said it wasn't but some have.
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