HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

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HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby rickt » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:47 am

Introduced yesterday.

H. B. No. 48-Representative Maag.
Cosponsors: Representatives Hood, Retherford, Vitale, Brinkman, Becker, Buchy, LaTourette, Hayes, Thompson, Kraus.

To amend sections 2923.12, 2923.122, 2923.126, and 2923.16 of the Revised Code to extend to handguns affirmative defenses to a charge of carrying a concealed weapon or having or transporting a firearm in a motor vehicle, and to modify the prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun onto institutions of higher education, places of worship, day-care facilities, aircraft, certain government facilities, public areas of airport terminals and police stations, and school safety zones.


https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legislation/legislation-summary?id=GA131-HB-48

Lot's to look at in this bill. This one addresses schools significantly better than HB 20. It simply says, if you have a CHl and "(b) The person leaves the handgun in a motor vehicle.", you will be legal.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JN01 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:17 pm

Hope this one goes somewhere. It actually has some substance that will impact a majority of CHL holders compared to some of the recent measures they passed that kind of nibble at the edges.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby rickt » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:46 pm

Here is what I think I am seeing in this bill.

1. Returns affirmative defense to the carrying of a concealed handgun, something that was taken out of the law back in 2004 when concealed carry became legal.

2. A CHL may enter a school building as long as the gun stays in the car. No time period mentioned, no dropping off picking up language. Way better than HB 20

3. Day cares, churches and non-secured areas of government buildings and airport terminals become legal for carry.

4. Colleges and Universities have the option of allowing carry (fat chance any will). Interestingly, the penalty for carrying on a college or university property becomes a minor misdemeanor.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JediSkipdogg » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:48 pm

I still don't like the way lines 405-416 are handled. They say one can carry in any area of the police station to which the public has access.

(1) AAny area of a police station, sheriff's office, or
state highway patrol station, to which the public does not have
access; premises controlled by the bureau of criminal
identification and investigation,; a state correctional
institution, jail, workhouse, or other detention facility,; any
area of an airport passenger terminal, that is beyond a
passenger or property screening checkpoint or to which access is
restricted through security measures by the airport authority or
a public agency; or an institution that is maintained, operated,
managed, and governed pursuant to division (A) of section
5119.14 of the Revised Code or division (A)(1) of section
5123.03 of the Revised Code;


That may be fine and dandy for some police stations but many police stations have temporary holding facilities and some even have jails. Therefore 2921.36 still makes it illegal to carry in (technically on the grounds of) most police stations since they have a temporary holding facility which is overseen by the department of rehabilitation and correction. However, you don't know that until you are under arrest.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby Werz » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:05 pm

rickt wrote:Here is what I think I am seeing in this bill.

1. Returns affirmative defense to the carrying of a concealed handgun, something that was taken out of the law back in 2004 when concealed carry became legal.

I'm fairly sure that the removal of the affirmative defenses was a strong negotiating point in the original legislation. Returning those defenses is likely to convince some people that they don't need a CHL because they can always talk their way out of a concealed weapons charge with tales fear and woe. And that never works as well as they think it will. For every guy who might have a good argument along those lines, there are three who will be perceived as perpetual troublemakers with guns.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby BobK » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Werz wrote:
rickt wrote:Here is what I think I am seeing in this bill.

1. Returns affirmative defense to the carrying of a concealed handgun, something that was taken out of the law back in 2004 when concealed carry became legal.

I'm fairly sure that the removal of the affirmative defenses was a strong negotiating point in the original legislation. Returning those defenses is likely to convince some people that they don't need a CHL because they can always talk their way out of a concealed weapons charge with tales fear and woe. And that never works as well as they think it will. For every guy who might have a good argument along those lines, there are three who will be perceived as perpetual troublemakers with guns.

The first rebuttal is a "prudent man" would take the time and effort to obtain a license.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby cityboy » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:48 pm

My definition of prudent man: wouldn't bow to the state to ask permission via CHL :|

I have not yet read the bill. At first glance I wanna' say I like it. But I haven't read it.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JediSkipdogg » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:57 pm

cityboy wrote:My definition of prudent man: wouldn't bow to the state to ask permission via CHL :|


And that is the problem. Depending on how well of a job the prosecutor did I would probably say a prudent man would get a CHL unless this is a one time instance and the defendant could prove that in court. For example, a subject that happened to volunteer for a raffle and take the $10,000 deposit to the bank. Prudent man there? Sure. The McDonalds manager that works third shift always taking the deposit to the bank and happens to only get caught once? Logic would say he's been carrying all along and a prudent person in his/her position would get a CHL. Being prudent has a lot to do with the circumstances surrounding the occasion.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby pleasantguywhopacks » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:31 pm

Praying this advances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOxXpNBdrVE
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby djthomas » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:40 pm

I can support this one.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby curmudgeon3 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:11 pm

pleasantguywhopacks wrote:Praying this advances.

Likewise ! But muddy road ahead ...... election campaigns getting ready to begin in earnest. (Some have already begun on a national basis under a different name.)
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby Werz » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:39 pm

cityboy wrote:My definition of prudent man: wouldn't bow to the state to ask permission via CHL :|

A prudent man would be smart enough not to say something like that in front of a jury. Hubris does not work well for affirmative defenses.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby Werz » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:44 pm

JediSkipdogg wrote:
cityboy wrote:My definition of prudent man: wouldn't bow to the state to ask permission via CHL :|

And that is the problem. Depending on how well of a job the prosecutor did I would probably say a prudent man would get a CHL unless this is a one time instance and the defendant could prove that in court. For example, a subject that happened to volunteer for a raffle and take the $10,000 deposit to the bank. Prudent man there? Sure. The McDonalds manager that works third shift always taking the deposit to the bank and happens to only get caught once? Logic would say he's been carrying all along and a prudent person in his/her position would get a CHL. Being prudent has a lot to do with the circumstances surrounding the occasion.

And let's not forgot those who carry large sums of cash as remuneration for less-than-wholesome commercial endeavors. :wink:
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JediSkipdogg » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:54 pm

Werz wrote:And let's not forgot those who carry large sums of cash as remuneration for less-than-wholesome commercial endeavors. :wink:


He's prudent because the state won't allow him to get a CHL. :lol:
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby techguy85 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:48 am

Speaking purely for myself, and not as the adviser for any campus concealed carry group that I may or may not be the faculty/staff adviser for, this wussified campuses can opt in and it would be legal business is a pile of horse {inappropriate language}. We all know the chances of anyone being given permission, that is if you are related to a member of the board of trustees. I hate these laws that create a second class of citizens. They just are too afraid to stand up to the Universities and I have no idea why that is.
Otherwise, I like the bill.
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