HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Discussion of Firearm Politics & Legislation. This forum is now strictly limited to discussions directly related to firearms.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

ToledoXJ wrote:...

What I do care about is wether or not I should be taking advantage of a change in the law (that I need help understanding) or if I should finish up my trust and go that route

Without a trust, YOU must be present when someone else is using the NFA item(s). WITH a trust, ANY trustee can be present. The new law won't change that.

Without a trust, the NFA item(s) CANNOT be transferred upon your death OR legal disability (such as being convicted of a crime punishable by more than 1 year). The new law won't change that.
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5800
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by JustaShooter »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Without a trust, the NFA item(s) CANNOT be transferred upon your death OR legal disability (such as being convicted of a crime punishable by more than 1 year). The new law won't change that.
Are you sure about that? I read recently in one of the forums I frequent (could even have been in here) that you could indeed have the NFA item(s) transferred upon your death, and that if I recall correctly the form necessary to do so was a part of the packet from the BATFE. And as I recall, that transfer did not require a new fee / tax nor did it require CLEO signature.

Hang on, let me go look and see if I can find it...

EDIT: Here is the thread / post I remember: http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php? ... e#p4297783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

davcar45 wrote:
you don't need a trust to pass your NFA items to your heirs. Those items can be and are transferred tax free on a ATF Form 5. Many people go ahead and fill out the Form 5's and have them with their stamped form 4's or form 1's in their safes or safe deposit boxes. So when they die, all that has to be done is to send the form 5 to West Virginia(NFA Branch) Others leave detailed instructions. Others like me who have sons old enough to possess the stuff tell them about the forms and the process so they are legal when Dad is gone.

EDIT: Mike B, CLEO does not have to sign off on a Form 5 for heirs.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Oops. I got that part mixed up with unserialized firearms (non-transferrable).
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
gaptrick
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:02 pm
Location: Cuyahoga/Lake Counties

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by gaptrick »

What if I already have a corporation? Is it the same as a trust or does one need to be opened specifically for the NFA item?
Unarmed people are vulnerable people, and criminal predators prey upon them.

AWRHawkin


"A story about a bird stealing a knife from a crime scene...and we're more interested in hearing about the Canadian with a gun.
Man, we need to get lives."
MWSY
User avatar
djthomas
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:09 am

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by djthomas »

gaptrick wrote:What if I already have a corporation? Is it the same as a trust or does one need to be opened specifically for the NFA item?
A corporation can own NFA firearms the same as a trust. But talk to a lawyer first. It's probably wise to review your articles of incorporation and other papers before simply using what you have to save a few bucks today. If your corporation was not set up with handling NFA items in mind it probably doesn't have critical provisions for things like:

1. Providing for the proper disposition of restricted items on wind up. A trust goes on more or less forever (as far as you're concerned), but businesses, particularly small ones, come and go all the time. What happens when you retire, sell your company, or just plain get sick of doing what you're doing? It takes six months or more, plus transfer taxes to properly transfer each item to whatever new entity you come up with. Most corporation wind up clauses I've seen don't account for the special handling procedures necessary for NFA items. Not to mention potentially paying the transfer tax multiple times on an NFA item that never leaves your possession.

2. Handling corporate officers who are, or become under disability.

3. Purpose of the corporation - if your corporation exists to be the best darn website development company and the docs empower the officers to take all necessary and proper actions in furtherance of that goal then it would be hard to see how owning NFA items would be either necessary or proper. This probably isn't a big deal if you're the only shareholder (since practically speaking your fiduciary duty is to yourself only), but I suppose it could come up during a tax audit. If you're looking to buy machine guns for investment purposes then your corporation better be set up as an investment outfit and will need to pay taxes accordingly.

4. Accounting issues - NFA items become assets of the corporation and would have to be accounted for on the taxes, including depreciation (depending on what the assets are). As a corporation you'd have to be able to say how those depreciated assets benefited the business. A good NFA trust specifically addresses trustee(s) non-liability for asset depreciation. That'd be a tough flag to fly as a corporation. The IRS shares tax information with state and local governments now, so that's at least three more agencies (IRS, State of Ohio, and your local taxing authority, if any) that could find out what your corporation owns. The more people you have to tell, the more likely someone might question the point in (3) above - "why is this website company handling dangerous, nasty, icky gun things? Let's do an audit and see how else he's laundering money."
davcar45
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:13 am
Location: Butler County

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by davcar45 »

Any insight on the effective date from you insiders? :mrgreen:
NRA Endowment Life Member
http://www.assaultweapon.info
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5800
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by JustaShooter »

davcar45 wrote:Any insight on the effective date from you insiders? :mrgreen:
They still haven't updated the status report at http://lsc.state.oh.us/coderev/hou130.n ... enDocument" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but since the Governor signed it 12/19, the effective date should be March 19th if it is "90 days after being signed", or perhaps the 20th if you don't count the day it was signed. But I'm not an insider so I don't know anything more than how to count.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
davcar45
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:13 am
Location: Butler County

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by davcar45 »

JustaShooter wrote:
davcar45 wrote:Any insight on the effective date from you insiders? :mrgreen:
They still haven't updated the status report at http://lsc.state.oh.us/coderev/hou130.n ... enDocument" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but since the Governor signed it 12/19, the effective date should be March 19th if it is "90 days after being signed", or perhaps the 20th if you don't count the day it was signed. But I'm not an insider so I don't know anything more than how to count.
Yes and the mystery is not the day count. The mystery is the effective date is 90 days after the signed bill is filed with the Secretary of State.

So I'm asking if any of the insiders know what date this bill was filed or if it even has been filed yet?
NRA Endowment Life Member
http://www.assaultweapon.info
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5800
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by JustaShooter »

davcar45 wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
davcar45 wrote:Any insight on the effective date from you insiders? :mrgreen:
They still haven't updated the status report at http://lsc.state.oh.us/coderev/hou130.n ... enDocument" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, but since the Governor signed it 12/19, the effective date should be March 19th if it is "90 days after being signed", or perhaps the 20th if you don't count the day it was signed. But I'm not an insider so I don't know anything more than how to count.
Yes and the mystery is not the day count. The mystery is the effective date is 90 days after the signed bill is filed with the Secretary of State.

So I'm asking if any of the insiders know what date this bill was filed or if it even has been filed yet?
Understood - my point was partially that it should have been filed with the Secretary of State the day it was signed. As I understand it, it would be unusual for it to be otherwise. And until the status is updated at at http://lsc.state.oh.us/coderev/hou130.n ... enDocument" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, I sincerely doubt anyone in these forums will know differently.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
User avatar
schmieg
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5751
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Madeira, Ohio

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by schmieg »

It was filed with the Secretary when the legislature passed it and the clerk sent it over. Once filed, the governor has ten days to veto or sign it or let it become law automatically. Once signed or after the ten days, the Secretary of State has to docket the bill. It becomes effective 90 days later. We are waiting for the docketing. Remember, this isn't the only bill passed and signed. There is always a backlog at the end of each legislative session.
-- Mike

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
davcar45
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:13 am
Location: Butler County

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by davcar45 »

schmieg wrote:It was filed with the Secretary when the legislature passed it and the clerk sent it over. Once filed, the governor has ten days to veto or sign it or let it become law automatically. Once signed or after the ten days, the Secretary of State has to docket the bill. It becomes effective 90 days later. We are waiting for the docketing. Remember, this isn't the only bill passed and signed. There is always a backlog at the end of each legislative session.
Yes I guess I have my terminology wrong. Docketing....

Some members here knew it was signed hours before it was public. Or before anyplace released a statement about signing. So I was just wondering if any of those folks knew people in the chain that had info. No biggie, it will be posted eventually.
NRA Endowment Life Member
http://www.assaultweapon.info
User avatar
schmieg
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5751
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Madeira, Ohio

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by schmieg »

davcar45 wrote:
schmieg wrote:It was filed with the Secretary when the legislature passed it and the clerk sent it over. Once filed, the governor has ten days to veto or sign it or let it become law automatically. Once signed or after the ten days, the Secretary of State has to docket the bill. It becomes effective 90 days later. We are waiting for the docketing. Remember, this isn't the only bill passed and signed. There is always a backlog at the end of each legislative session.
Yes I guess I have my terminology wrong. Docketing....

Some members here knew it was signed hours before it was public. Or before anyplace released a statement about signing. So I was just wondering if any of those folks knew people in the chain that had info. No biggie, it will be posted eventually.
We knew it was signed before anyone else because one of the Directors was present at the signing.
-- Mike

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

davcar45 wrote:...Some members here knew it was signed hours before it was public. Or before anyplace released a statement about signing...
schmieg wrote:We knew it was signed before anyone else because one of the Directors was present at the signing.
And you are welcome to attend any of our events at the statehouse, davcar45 !!


Come on down and help us pester, I mean, lobby our senators and representatives to push through some much needed legislation OR to keep bad bills from seeing the light of day.

It IS actually kind of fun, and the pizza shop on High St. at Broad Street has some pretty good food. (Sorry statehouse deli)
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5800
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by JustaShooter »

Just read on another forum that the effective date for the newly-passed Am. Sub. H.B. 234 is March 23:

Just for reference:
Governor signed Dec. 19, 2014
Filed with Secretary of State Dec. 22, 2014
90 days makes it March 23, 2015.
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
User avatar
Rhino
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 2571
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: Greene County

Re: HB 234, as passed by the legislature

Post by Rhino »

Nothing on the state site yet.
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.

The Constitution shall never be construed … to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.
-- Samuel Adams

Condensed Guide to Ohio Concealed Carry Laws
Post Reply