Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Discussion of Firearm Politics & Legislation. This forum is now strictly limited to discussions directly related to firearms.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Locked
User avatar
Chuck
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
Posts: 4753
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
Location: Licking County

Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by Chuck »

Legislative alert!
Folks, we worked hard to get Representative Johnson to agree to dropping the NICS compliancy portion from HB 203. It appears that doing so may have cost us the bill.

John Hohenwarter of the NRA is determined to include it again into whatever legislation is passed in these waning days of the legislative session. I don't know why the NRA is hell bent on passing laws that are against our best interests as gun owners in Ohio, but I do know that it is happening,
I know that it WILL happen, unless we stop it

He's done it in other states
http://pgnh.org/heave_ho_hohenwarter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-10/ ... ost1391984" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The NICS check amendment is being sold as a means to increase reciprocity and to eliminate the background check we all go through when we buy a gun through an FFL, but in reality it does neither. What it really does is effectively wipe out Ohio's restoration of rights for many misdemeanor offenses, AND it automatically gives gun rights to fifth degree drug felons. This is possible because of differing standards between Ohio and the federal government
What is even worse, it takes decision making control over gun rights away from the Ohio Legislature, where we have some influence, and gives it to the federal government, where we have none.

As an NRA Certified Instructor, it pains me very much to write this post, but it must be done.
It would be disastrous if this amendment makes it into State law.

We are asking everyone to email and /or call EVERY member of the Senate Civil Justice Committee ASAP and as often as possible and tell them WE DON'T WANT any NICS amendment passed in this session.
Go to this page: http://www.ohiosenate.gov/committee/civil-justice" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, and click on each member to send them an email and get their phone number
Vice Chair Senator Larry Obhof, http://www.ohiosenate.gov/obhof" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, is the person gathering amendments,
Senator Joe Eucker, http://www.ohiosenate.gov/uecker" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, who is our friend, was very surprised to learn that we oppose it, since "the other gun group" in Ohio supports it. (They also supported the hidden compartment bill)

Please, please, PLEASE!
Burn up the phone lines, crash the internet, make your voices heard!
If we don't, we're going to be burnt with bad legislation that no one wants

As some of you know, my health is preventing me from going to the Statehouse until next year, or else I would be there every day for the next two weeks
The legislature is only meeting on Tues. Weds. and Thurs those two weeks, with Dec 18 being their last day.

So time is short and the time for action is now
Carry on . . .
Ain't activism fun?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
Pops Fun
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Cincinnati,
Contact:

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by Pops Fun »

Done.....

Can I get John Hohenwarter e-mail, sounds like he needs a few thousand e-mails.
I have done some looking but can't find it. I can find the state volunteers but not his.

Just wrote the NRA-ILA https://www.nraila.org/secure/contact-us.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Please don't push the NICS portion of Ohio HB203.
What is John Hohenwarter of the NRA thinking pushing this element of HB203. Giving more power to the Federal government, over our state rights.
I vote. and support groups that I agree with, the NRA is a great organization, please don't make me doubt my membership."

Steve
Steve

"Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom and then lost it, have never known it again.".............. Ronald Reagan
NavyChief
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 11621
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:22 am
Location: Greene County
Contact:

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by NavyChief »

Legislative alert is going out momentarily. (Actually, the software is already processing it, so you might as well say it's already been sent.) Poop storm in ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 . . .
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
User avatar
schmieg
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5751
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Madeira, Ohio

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by schmieg »

Pops Fun wrote:Done.....

Can I get John Hohenwarter e-mail, sounds like he needs a few thousand e-mails.
I have done some looking but can't find it. I can find the state volunteers but not his.

Just wrote the NRA-ILA https://www.nraila.org/secure/contact-us.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Please don't push the NICS portion of Ohio HB203.
What is John Hohenwarter of the NRA thinking pushing this element of HB203. Giving more power to the Federal government, over our state rights.
I vote. and support groups that I agree with, the NRA is a great organization, please don't make me doubt my membership."

Steve
Hohenwarter is not the priority - the State Senate is. Contact your Senator immediately regarding this. Hohenwarter and the NRA can wait.
-- Mike

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
User avatar
Chuck
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
Posts: 4753
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
Location: Licking County

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by Chuck »

schmieg wrote:
Pops Fun wrote:Done.....

Can I get John Hohenwarter e-mail, sounds like he needs a few thousand e-mails.
I have done some looking but can't find it. I can find the state volunteers but not his.

Just wrote the NRA-ILA https://www.nraila.org/secure/contact-us.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Please don't push the NICS portion of Ohio HB203.
What is John Hohenwarter of the NRA thinking pushing this element of HB203. Giving more power to the Federal government, over our state rights.
I vote. and support groups that I agree with, the NRA is a great organization, please don't make me doubt my membership."

Steve
Hohenwarter is not the priority - the State Senate is. Contact your Senator immediately regarding this. Hohenwarter and the NRA can wait.
^^THIS^^
Ain't activism fun?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
User avatar
synack2
Posts: 753
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:53 pm
Location: Springfield
Contact:

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by synack2 »

Chuck wrote:What it really does is effectively wipe out Ohio's restoration of rights for many misdemeanor offenses, AND it automatically gives gun rights to fifth degree drug felons.
Okay, I am not trying to troll here but I am trying to get some more facts on this, since as a Libertarian, I am really not all Pro War on Drugs. I don't believe that just because someone got busted with a little bit of drugs 15 years ago, should prevent them from ever getting a CHL.

From what I have been reading a 5th degree Drug felony in pretty much every case is when someone has a small amount of drugs (assumed to be for personal use), sometimes said as "Less than the bulk amount" or for certain drugs it is by the Gram or Dose(s). And some 4th degrees may be allowed to become 5th degrees if they can offer "proof" it was just for personal use then they may get a 5th degree. I think I am Okay with this.

My next question here is, would this make all of the misdemeanor marijuana offenses no longer disqualifying for getting a CHL as well?

I am also not understanding the restoration of rights. I have 2 questions.

Can some give an example of rights that Ohio restores that would be taken away under federal law?

Can someone please explain how a restoration of rights to get a CHL even helps or matters anyway, if you are not legally allow to own/purchase a handgun under federal law?

Everything else in the Bill looks good on the surface to me, but I know these politicians can be sneaky, and I have to say the ability to walk into Vance and flash my CHL and get a gun without standing around for an hour waiting really appeals to me.
Carry everyday everywhere you legally can. I carry a Ruger LCP2 or a Glock 42. Find me on YouTube as FrugalPrepper
User avatar
schmieg
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5751
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Madeira, Ohio

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by schmieg »

synack2 wrote:
Chuck wrote:What it really does is effectively wipe out Ohio's restoration of rights for many misdemeanor offenses, AND it automatically gives gun rights to fifth degree drug felons.
Okay, I am not trying to troll here but I am trying to get some more facts on this, since as a Libertarian, I am really not all Pro War on Drugs. I don't believe that just because someone got busted with a little bit of drugs 15 years ago, should prevent them from ever getting a CHL.

From what I have been reading a 5th degree Drug felony in pretty much every case is when someone has a small amount of drugs (assumed to be for personal use), sometimes said as "Less than the bulk amount" or for certain drugs it is by the Gram or Dose(s). And some 4th degrees may be allowed to become 5th degrees if they can offer "proof" it was just for personal use then they may get a 5th degree. I think I am Okay with this.

My next question here is, would this make all of the misdemeanor marijuana offenses no longer disqualifying for getting a CHL as well?

I am also not understanding the restoration of rights. I have 2 questions.

Can some give an example of rights that Ohio restores that would be taken away under federal law?

Can someone please explain how a restoration of rights to get a CHL even helps or matters anyway, if you are not legally allow to own/purchase a handgun under federal law?

Everything else in the Bill looks good on the surface to me, but I know these politicians can be sneaky, and I have to say the ability to walk into Vance and flash my CHL and get a gun without standing around for an hour waiting really appeals to me.
The idea behind the legislation has some potential, but the problem is that Ohio's criminal law and rights restoration process is not directly in line with federal law. To do this properly would involve a large scale rewrite of the Ohio criminal code and rights restoration process. Some would be hurt in that process and some helped, but the way this legislation is written severely limits the restoration process in Ohio as that is not addressed in the changes. The problem is more in existing case law than in the idea, but this is a half-baked attempt to increase reciprocity and to eliminate the NICS check when buying a firearm and it will accomplish neither.
-- Mike

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
User avatar
DontTreadOnMe
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:11 am
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

synack2 wrote:I am also not understanding the restoration of rights. I have 2 questions.

Can some give an example of rights that Ohio restores that would be taken away under federal law?
Any felony that isn't a felony of violence or drug-related felony. For example, disrupting public services or unauthorized use of a vehicle.

I'm not saying those things are ok, but under current laws an Ohioan who does that and serves his/her time has their rights to vote, sit on juries, and own firearms restored. This change would prevent them from ever being able to own a firearm.
synack2 wrote:Can someone please explain how a restoration of rights to get a CHL even helps or matters anyway, if you are not legally allow to own/purchase a handgun under federal law?
It applies to gun ownership, not just getting a CHL. The intent of the bill may be to apply to the CHL process, but the content of the bill unquestionably applies to gun ownership since it modifies Ohio Revised Code 2923.13 Having weapons while under disability.
synack2 wrote:Everything else in the Bill looks good on the surface to me, but I know these politicians can be sneaky, and I have to say the ability to walk into Vance and flash my CHL and get a gun without standing around for an hour waiting really appeals to me.
You won't. I thought this too but I was corrected. You still have to fill out the 4473 form, wait for it to be reviewed, etc. The only thing it does is means Vance's won't have to call in for the background check ... which is usually just a couple minutes.
User avatar
Chuck
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
Posts: 4753
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
Location: Licking County

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by Chuck »

The biggest issue from a Liberatarian viewpoint is that the right to decide who does and who doesn't have the right to own guns that now belongs to the state will belong to the feds if this passes,,,,
Ain't activism fun?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
NavyChief
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 11621
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:22 am
Location: Greene County
Contact:

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by NavyChief »

Chuck wrote:The biggest issue from a Liberatarian viewpoint is that the right to decide who does and who doesn't have the right to own guns that now belongs to the state will belong to the feds if this passes,,,,
And we all know what a great job they do at everything.
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
User avatar
schmieg
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5751
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:11 pm
Location: Madeira, Ohio

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by schmieg »

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
synack2 wrote:Everything else in the Bill looks good on the surface to me, but I know these politicians can be sneaky, and I have to say the ability to walk into Vance and flash my CHL and get a gun without standing around for an hour waiting really appeals to me.
You won't. I thought this too but I was corrected. You still have to fill out the 4473 form, wait for it to be reviewed, etc. The only thing it does is means Vance's won't have to call in for the background check ... which is usually just a couple minutes.
Actually, it may not even allow that as federal law only allows the NICS avoidance for licenses that are for terms of five years or less. Ohio has a 30 day grace period after the five years during which the license is still valid and I would expect the feds to determine that is a term of more than five years, preventing even that expected benefit.
-- Mike

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
User avatar
Homer J
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:53 pm
Location: Hilliard

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by Homer J »

If I had an M4 disorderly conduct conviction which caused me to fail a NICS check and I found out when I appealed it was considered a MCDV because the "victim" met the definition and the ORC had the term "fighting" in it. I had it sealed in 2009 and all has been good. Would I be in jeopardy of loosing my gun rights if this bill passed?
User avatar
Chuck
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
Posts: 4753
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
Location: Licking County

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by Chuck »

Homer J wrote:If I had an M4 disorderly conduct conviction which caused me to fail a NICS check and I found out when I appealed it was considered a MCDV because the "victim" met the definition and the ORC had the term "fighting" in it. I had it sealed in 2009 and all has been good. Would I be in jeopardy of loosing my gun rights if this bill passed?
YES

Can you come to the Statehouse Tues. Weds. or Thursday?
Ain't activism fun?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
User avatar
Werz
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 5506
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by Werz »

schmieg wrote:
synack2 wrote:
Chuck wrote:What it really does is effectively wipe out Ohio's restoration of rights for many misdemeanor offenses, AND it automatically gives gun rights to fifth degree drug felons.
Okay, I am not trying to troll here but I am trying to get some more facts on this, since as a Libertarian, I am really not all Pro War on Drugs. I don't believe that just because someone got busted with a little bit of drugs 15 years ago, should prevent them from ever getting a CHL.

From what I have been reading a 5th degree Drug felony in pretty much every case is when someone has a small amount of drugs (assumed to be for personal use), sometimes said as "Less than the bulk amount" or for certain drugs it is by the Gram or Dose(s). And some 4th degrees may be allowed to become 5th degrees if they can offer "proof" it was just for personal use then they may get a 5th degree. I think I am Okay with this.

My next question here is, would this make all of the misdemeanor marijuana offenses no longer disqualifying for getting a CHL as well?

I am also not understanding the restoration of rights. I have 2 questions.

Can some give an example of rights that Ohio restores that would be taken away under federal law?

Can someone please explain how a restoration of rights to get a CHL even helps or matters anyway, if you are not legally allow to own/purchase a handgun under federal law?

Everything else in the Bill looks good on the surface to me, but I know these politicians can be sneaky, and I have to say the ability to walk into Vance and flash my CHL and get a gun without standing around for an hour waiting really appeals to me.
The idea behind the legislation has some potential, but the problem is that Ohio's criminal law and rights restoration process is not directly in line with federal law. To do this properly would involve a large scale rewrite of the Ohio criminal code and rights restoration process. Some would be hurt in that process and some helped, but the way this legislation is written severely limits the restoration process in Ohio as that is not addressed in the changes. The problem is more in existing case law than in the idea, but this is a half-baked attempt to increase reciprocity and to eliminate the NICS check when buying a firearm and it will accomplish neither.
But let's not stop there. Let's look at a provision that has been grafted in SB338 in an apparent attempt to "fix" the issue of R.C. 2923.14 "Relief from Disability" being the sole remedy to disability under R.C. 2923.14. That bill replaces "Unless relieved from disability as provided in section 2923.14 of the Revised Code" with "Unless relieved from disability under operation of law or legal process." That would allegedly "expand the options for obtaining relief from the disability under the offense of having weapons while under disability." But what the hell does that mean?! It does not describe or refer to any other specific remedy. Do we wait around until folks are arrested, tried and convicted, then wait for an Ohio appellate court to tell us what is and is not sufficient to constitute relief from disability? I can see that provision being combined with the "unlawful under 18 U.S.C. 922(g)" provision and offered as a magic answer to our objections, but the average law student can see what a load of crap that is.

And for anyone who trusts Ohio appellate courts to reach a quick and decisive answer to that issue, consider the following. We have all heard how the United States Sixth Circuit held in United States v. Cassidy, 899 F.2d 543 (6th Cir.1990) that a person could be under federal disability for an Ohio conviction, even though federal law would not normally consider that conviction. But then look at the decision of the United States Fifth Circuit [Texas] in United States v. Chenowith, 459 F.3d 635 (5th Cir. 2006), which reaches the opposite conclusion while considering the exact same Ohio law! Federal appellate courts cannot agree when someone is under federal disability based on Ohio law. And now we are supposed to wait for Ohio courts to hash out whether someone is under federal disability based on Ohio law, applying a vague notion of "operation of law or legal process." Really? REALLY?!
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
Pops Fun
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 1101
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Cincinnati,
Contact:

Re: Legislative Alert! - - Call to Action!!

Post by Pops Fun »

Chuck wrote:
schmieg wrote:
Pops Fun wrote:Done.....

Can I get John Hohenwarter e-mail, sounds like he needs a few thousand e-mails.
I have done some looking but can't find it. I can find the state volunteers but not his.

Just wrote the NRA-ILA https://www.nraila.org/secure/contact-us.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Please don't push the NICS portion of Ohio HB203.
What is John Hohenwarter of the NRA thinking pushing this element of HB203. Giving more power to the Federal government, over our state rights.
I vote. and support groups that I agree with, the NRA is a great organization, please don't make me doubt my membership."

Steve
Hohenwarter is not the priority - the State Senate is. Contact your Senator immediately regarding this. Hohenwarter and the NRA can wait.


^^THIS^^
I had already e-mailed all the Senators before I posted this.. I said Done..
Steve

"Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom and then lost it, have never known it again.".............. Ronald Reagan
Locked