Local firearms instructors are lobbying against HB203

[Ring]

from ar15.com

A handful of Local firearms instructors are lobbying against decreased mandated hours HB203


A handful of Local firearms instructors are obstructing/lobbying against decreased mandated hours of training to obtain an Ohio CHL. While some of them may be well meaning, others clearly are so dispositioned due to their ability to charge more for the longer training hours. They are playing perfectly into the hands, and giving ammo "pun intended to anti freedom gun banners" If we fail to pass the improvements included in HB203, it will be because these instructors are giving the weak law makers cover to waffle on the bill.

Training is obviously important, and it should be tailored to meet the students need, not an arbitrary time requirement. Personally as trainers we've gone 15 hours when needed, but there have been classes comprised of individuals we could have brought to the same knowledge level in 4. Good instructors will always do good classes.

Then there's always the little matter of Self Defense and The Second Amendment right to bare arms, being a God given unassailable right, not privilege which should be licensed.

I suggest if you support the Second Amendment and the incremental improvements contained in HB203, start calling around to find out who these instructors are, and let them know that we won't support their businesses and we'll be passing the word to others in the Ohio community.

Also take time to call your state Senator and urge passage of HB203 as passed by the House without delay.


From the Story:

Local firearms instructors do not agree with legislation proposing to lower the minimum training requirement from 12 to four hours to apply for a concealed handgun license.

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[pirateguy191]

No, it's definitely not about the money.

[Stryker74]

from ar15.com

A handful of Local firearms instructors are lobbying against decreased mandated hours HB203


A handful of Local firearms instructors are obstructing/lobbying against decreased mandated hours of training to obtain an Ohio CHL. While some of them may be well meaning, others clearly are so dispositioned due to their ability to charge more for the longer training hours. They are playing perfectly into the hands, and giving ammo "pun intended to anti freedom gun banners" If we fail to pass the improvements included in HB203, it will be because these instructors are giving the weak law makers cover to waffle on the bill.

We hear this all the time at the gun shows. People have an absolute fear at times over the reduction in the minimum number of training hours. Their are already instructors that are charging less due to huge classes, or they are giving 4 hour classes and sending people to get a Florida CHL. This change in HB203 will not affect that aspect.

If an instructor is going to do an excellent job at 12 hours, then that same instructor is going to do an excellent job in fewer hours. The NRA class materials, which the training requirements are based on, are estimated for 8 hours. I know instructors that will not do a class bigger than 4-5 people so that they can get more time with the people - regardless of the amount of time it takes, they are giving proper instruction.

Also, people need to understand - these classes are not advanced gun handling techniques. This is gun safety and awareness, along with shooting time - and aptitude is going to vary. There are many that go to these classes but are already very proficient with firearms.

I say it is up to the instructor to determine when a student is ready - if that is in 4 hours or 40 hours.

[color of law]

Just because a law was passed that created a possible business opportunity does not mean that you are entitled to that business opportunity.

I also find it odd that an instructor is not required to take a state administered test to be licensed and pay a licensing fee to ensure the instructor is competent to even teach the course.

Taking a 12 hour class to get a license was mandated to appease the antis. Four hours is more than reasonable. If needed at all.

If a class was so important then why is not a class required to open carry? Because we know why........

[Tweed Ring]

I was certified to train Ohio's CHL by an NRA Instructor Trainer. No need to get state government involved, because what they give, they can take away, as well.

[color of law]

I was certified to train Ohio's CHL by an NRA Instructor Trainer. No need to get state government involved, because what they give, they can take away, as well.

And that maybe why we hear horror stories about instructors teaching their students that open carry is illegal, you cannot carry in bars and many other BS claims.

I'm against HB 203 for other reasons, but cutting training to zero would be fine with me. If you don't need training to open carry why do you need it to conceal carry? The answer is clear, you don't.

[pirateguy191]

I was certified to train Ohio's CHL by an NRA Instructor Trainer. No need to get state government involved, because what they give, they can take away, as well.

And that maybe why we hear horror stories about instructors teaching their students that open carry is illegal, you cannot carry in bars and many other BS claims.

Generally speaking, it's been OPOTA instructors that are handing out false information. At least from what I've seen.

[Tweed Ring]

I was certified by Monadnock Lifetime Products, Inc. to teach defensive baton instructors and baton students. I have taught boatloads of LEO's and Criminal Justice employees over the years. I have so instructed at the Ohio Peace Officers Training Academy, a State of Ohio facility, under the auspices of the Ohio Attorney General, and have trained, tested, and certified a number of county and municipal LEO's with just my Monadnock certifications, and with no problems from either the OPOTA hierarchy, nor from the Office of the AG.

All the aforementioned without any state tests nor state certification.

I am also certified as a NRA Instructor, in a variety of subject matters, and train Ohio's CHL students. I am an excellent trainer. The people who trained me for my initial Ohio CHL were not as good trainers as this writer. That's simply a fact. I have been engaged in training the Ohio CHL for almost a decade.

Again, all the aforementioned without any state tests nor state certification.

I have been training employees in a variety of classroom topics since 1975.

About a decade ago, a majority of the elected representatives in both houses of the Ohio General Assembly vetted, considered, debated, approved, and finally voted to accept as Ohio CHL trainers those certified by the National Rifle Association. As my then state senator (one of my CHL students, as well) said, "The NRA is the 'big dog' for concealed carry training.

I give my opinion to my CHL students about open carry, about bar carry, about dealing with traffic stops/Terry stops, etc. When I have time to train, I team-teach with a gun-rights attorney, who gives the trainees a legal overview of current laws regarding the aforementioned topics, as well as other nuances and changes/updates in the Ohio concealed carry law.

When you hear a so-called "horror story" about my training skills, and/or my bonafides, for defensive baton, for Ohio's CHL, or any other topic for which I have provided training, please feel free to broadcast same. Likewise, the same challenge for any other trainer who taught for my training company, COPTA, Inc.

Why anyone wants additional state government involvement in this process, which has clearly been a success, and in which the NRA has dealt successfully with any rouge NRA trainers, is simply beyond me.

All roads lead to Columbus, Ohio, as do telephones, and as does email. Mount up, lobby the OGA, and have the law changed, if that is your passion.

Until then, feel free to teach your Ohio CHL classes as you desire.....giving your students your opinions...on any number of topics.

[WestonDon]

Excellent points. There is NOTHING repeat NOTHING the state can do better concerning firearms than NRA can.

We must all keep in mind that the training requirement is not for the privilege of carrying a gun. It is for the privilege of concealing the gun you are carrying.

[color of law]

Tweed Ring, your free to toot your own horn all you wish, no matter how self serving it may be.

But, lets stay on subject. I responded to the complaints some instructors made.

AR 15.com
While some of them may be well meaning, others clearly are so dispositioned due to their ability to charge more for the longer training hours.

My response was clear:

Just because a law was passed that created a possible business opportunity does not mean that you are entitled to that business opportunity.

Tweed Ring, you may be the one in a million guy that does it right, but there are many that are in it for only the money.

Again, if you don't need training to open carry why do you need it to conceal carry?

[Tweed Ring]

It’s my horn, and I intend to toot it whenever possible. When I cannot find others to serve me, I surely intend to serve myself. Repeatedly, and by day, and by shift.

The state has more than enough involvement in the process. But feel free to act as a citizen lobbyist, as do I. Simply put: our votes are paired for.

I find it unconscionable that CHL training is mandatory in Ohio. My stated preference, which I have made upon previous occasions, is that we, as a state, evolve to the current Vermont system. But, until the laws are changed, and there is no appetite for such changes in the current OGA, we have to live in the real world, as presented to us.

I have yet to meet a CHL instructor in Ohio, who has made a pile of green money teaching these classes. Most of us do it as an avocation. Oh, I do joke Ohio CHL training allowing me to buy the big cigarette boat, and the summer house up on Lake Wassookeag, but that’s just sarcasm.

Perhaps you do make green money training these classes? You did take the time, and spend the money, to become an NRA/OPOTA Ohio CHL trainer...right?

I am sorry, in that I cannot make my position and philosophy any more clear.

[color of law]

Excellent points. There is NOTHING repeat NOTHING the state can do better concerning firearms than NRA can.

We must all keep in mind that the training requirement is not for the privilege of carrying a gun. It is for the privilege of concealing the gun you are carrying.

Here, I fixed it for you. "We must all keep in mind that the training requirement is not for the RIGHT of carrying a gun. It is for the privilege of concealing the gun you are carrying."

[color of law]

...Perhaps you do make green money training these classes? You did take the time, and spend the money, to become an NRA/OPOTA Ohio CHL trainer...right?

I don't know where you got that idea. I have never said anything that would even come close to imply that I'm an CHL instructor.

[Jake]

He was making a rhetorical statement, I believe.

[Tweed Ring]

J - thank you. I enjoy the back-and-forth debate with other posters, on a variety of topics and concerns. While some may consider me prickly, I believe I am simply passionate about those beliefs which I support.

However, in this case, I just do not understand the desire for more government intervention/intrusion in our training and licensing system which has been operating successfully in Ohio for approximately a decade.

The private sector, through the NRA, provides a method by which interested and qualified citizenry can become proactive in protecting themselves and their families.

I don't see a downside.