HB347 = NOT MUCH

[eddandy]

I must have misunderstood Cable's post of Monday 9/19. In it he mentoned a number of things which were supposedly addressed in HB347. However taking a quick scan of the proposed bill, I find it to be a waste of my time.
I see nothing mentioned on the (for lack of a better word) stupid car carry. I see nothing intellegent on dining restaurant carry nor do I see anything on school pick up zones or college campus carry.
What I did catch is a lot of nibbling at the edges which would benefit only a few and took no effort to get cosponsors for such a weak bill.
Affirmative defense for discharging from a vehicle when your life depends on it is something no jury would convict you of anyhow (jury nollification). And ordering sherrifs to service applicants during all business hours is a real bigee as if you couldn't go to an adjoinin county. Unless I missed an awful lot during my quick scan I believe Rep. Aslanides could have spent his time more productively if he went perch fishing in Lake Ere.

[mattswabb]

We cannot get everything fixed in one shot. If a bill like this goes thru every 2 years eventually everything will be put right.

The car carry is taking a small step forward. With this you would still have to have a holster but it can be concealed. Then we will be able to carry IWB holsters in a car. Next time around we need make the holster part disappear. Eventually I hope we will be carrying our guns in our pockets, waistbands, on the seat, or anywhere we want in the car.

Could it be better? Yes, but I'll take any step forward.

matt

[Petrovich]

We cannot get everything fixed in one shot. If a bill like this goes thru every 2 years eventually everything will be put right.

The car carry is taking a small step forward. With this you would still have to have a holster but it can be concealed. Then we will be able to carry IWB holsters in a car. Next time around we need make the holster part disappear. Eventually I hope we will be carrying our guns in our pockets, waistbands, on the seat, or anywhere we want in the car.

Could it be better? Yes, but I'll take any step forward.

matt

Absolutely!! I call lit incremental mentality. I learned YEARS ago that the best way to achieve virtually ANYTHING in life is to persevere, over time, with diligent effort.

We borrow the anti's tactic of achieving small bits at a time; over a period of time. Rome wasn't built in a day!

Again, I see no point in criticizing Rep. Aslinides. He is the man with the job. For pete's sake, it was his HB12 that got us what we have now (along with the NRA and a huge grass roots effort).

I don't understand why so many are so quick to criticize guys like Aslinides and Petro when they have shown, by repeated past actions, that they are WORKING FOR US. These guys are on OUR side.

Know your enemies like hoover, coleman, mentel, brady and such. However, just as important is to know your friendlies.

[TunnelRat]

I don't understand why so many are so quick to criticize guys like Aslinides and Petro when they have shown, by repeated past actions, that they are WORKING FOR US. These guys are on OUR side.

Know your enemies like hoover, coleman, mentel, brady and such. However, just as important is to know your friendlies.

I am constantly amazed that politicians ever want to stick their necks out for us when we are so quick to offer the bitterest criticism of our most reliable friends.

[Redhorse]

Cheers to that Tom

[Hermangotshisguns]

The resturant thing is not top priority at this time. Yes, it would be nice. But in no way will they let it go forward. If you read the bill you will notice alot of our stuff is attached to Police stuff. In my opinion this makes it easier for this to get passed. The PEACE OFFICERS need some changes also. So, why not attach it to the concealed carry bill? If I was a Politician thisis how I would think. How do you think they removed the "Civil" law suits against the gun makers? They attached it to another bill.

I spoke with a Northwood Ohio Police Officer last week and he teaches the classes. He told me for a fact that he has only drawn his gun 3 TIMES in 13 years. 3 X IN 13 YEARS! I'd say that is pretty much luck. So, the question is now. How many times will you draw your gun in 13 years? Hopefully it is less than 3 So on the note of

I see nothing mentioned on the (for lack of a better word) stupid car carry. I see nothing intellegent on dining restaurant carry nor do I see anything on school pick up zones or college campus carry.
What I did catch is a lot of nibbling at the edges which would benefit only a few and took no effort to get cosponsors for such a weak bill.

Id say that this bill is a good one. Because the NUMBER ONE THING IT FIXES....Is that it PREEMPTS all the [expletive deleted -- TR] laws around the state which you are required to know everytime you go from Toledo to Cincinnati.

I think and know that PREEMPTION is far more important than resturants and most other things.

Personally, I want a type of Castle Doctrine here in Ohio. But I know that I will be waiting a little while for that to happen.

[eddandy]

As I mentioned in my original post, I only did a quick scan and did miss the part on car carry no longer needing to be visible. Can somebody please give me a line reference. As far as the rest of my post, I still stand by it.

[Petrovich]

As I mentioned in my original post, I only did a quick scan and did miss the part on car carry no longer needing to be visible. Can somebody please give me a line reference. As far as the rest of my post, I still stand by it.

Not trying to be smart alecky.

If you have a better idea for a piece of legislation....write it.

I am sure every member of this forum would be happy to read it and offer advice, constructive criticism, etc.

[Daniel]

As I mentioned in my original post, I only did a quick scan and did miss the part on car carry no longer needing to be visible. Can somebody please give me a line reference. As far as the rest of my post, I still stand by it.

Are you reading the version off the OFCC website? It is the correct version and addresses car carry near the end. There is a table of contents Jeff created that links to the appropriate line numbers.

I ask about the version only because we are aware of at least one other website out there that posted an incorrect version of the bill that did not, in fact, address car carry and was misleading people.

[Linda]

I don't understand why so many are so quick to criticize guys like Aslinides and Petro when they have shown, by repeated past actions, that they are WORKING FOR US. These guys are on OUR side.

Know your enemies like hoover, coleman, mentel, brady and such. However, just as important is to know your friendlies.

I am constantly amazed that politicians ever want to stick their necks out for us when we are so quick to offer the bitterest criticism of our most reliable friends.

I agree with you guys! Not ALL of it is going to get fixed overnight. Look how long it took just to get CCW as we have it today! We've come a long way baby, and individuals need to quit complaining about the negatives and embrace the positives! I hate to be the one who breaks it to you, but this is not a perfect world. Let's get this passed, and then we'll start working on the next phase. Let's think about it this way....,would we rather have what we have today, although not perfect, or would we rather have what we didn't have 2 years ago? That would be the lack of being able to protect ourselves? I'll take what I've been given, and will be happy with it, even in it's less than perfect state!

[CurtInOhio]

Unfortunately, the incremental approach is the easiest to do. It's also what groups like the gun haters and ACLU do to undermine the original meanings of things in the constitution... chop away a little at a time... take a small victory here to use as precedence over there...

The key is to pick the right battles to win so the next battles get easier. I wish we could all just show up somewhere and state that our 2nd amendment rights have been degraded if not at times completely demolished, and have someone say, 'Yeah, that's right; let's change that right now!". Instead, we have people arguing that the RTKBA is collective, with courts backing that up, or that even historical references to God on government property are against separation of church and state, even though that's not even in the constitution. The bad guys have found tactics that work. There's no reason not to fight back with the same tactics when we can.

I guess what I'm saying is that I support incremental improvements. I won't support a one-step-forward-two-steps-back approach, though.

[Fish4bass]

Time out... I read only car carry fixed.... what about the preemption fix...
That's a BIGGIE for Columbus, toledo, Remember Clyde !!!

This car carry has been the biggest PITA that needs fixin.... holster it once
and forget it..

Regards

Bob

[rickt]

Time out... I read only car carry fixed.... what about the preemption fix...
That's a BIGGIE for Columbus, toledo, Remember Clyde !!!

Preemption lines 38-72

Sec. 9.68. (A) Except as otherwise provided in the Revised
Code, any person may own, possess, purchase, otherwise acquire,
transport, carry, sell, or otherwise transfer a firearm, a firearm
component, or ammunition for a firearm. This section, sections
2923.11 to 2923.23 of the Revised Code, and all other sections of
the Revised Code dealing with the ownership, possession, purchase,
other acquisition, transport, carrying, sale, or other transfer of
firearms, their components, and their ammunition within the state
are general laws of the state.

(B) Except as otherwise provided in this division, the ownership,
possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport,
carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components,
and their ammunition is a matter of statewide concern, and this
section, sections 2923.11 to 2923.23 of the Revised Code, and all
other sections of the Revised Code dealing with those matters
preempt and supersede any local laws dealing with ownership,
possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, carrying,
sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their
ammunition. Nothing in this section prohibits a municipal
corporation from enacting an ordinance pertaining to matters other
than the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition,
transport, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their
components, or their ammunition. Nothing in this section preempts
or supersedes any local zoning regulations that limit, but do not
prohibit, the sale of firearms, firearm components, or ammunition
for firearms in areas zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial
use.

(C) As used in this section:

(1) The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms,
their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited
to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, concealed on a
person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their
components, or their ammunition.

(2) "Firearm" has the same meaning as in section 2923.11 of
the Revised Code.

[TunnelRat]

Preemption lines 38-72

Sec. 9.68. (A) Except as otherwise provided in the Revised
Code, any person may own, possess, purchase, otherwise acquire,
transport, carry, sell, or otherwise transfer a firearm, a firearm
component, or ammunition for a firearm. This section, sections
2923.11 to 2923.23 of the Revised Code, and all other sections of
the Revised Code dealing with the ownership, possession, purchase,
other acquisition, transport, carrying, sale, or other transfer of
firearms, their components, and their ammunition within the state
are general laws of the state.

That oughta do it! The Toledo Saturday Night Special law has to do with owning, possessing, and selling certain proscribed firearms. Once the state preempts that area of the law, the Toledo laws should be null and void.

[uperrsc]

It may not be PERFECT but I sure don't see any NEGATIVES to what the specified changes include. Here is the list of what I see that it modifies:

(1) Creates a clear definition of - "plain sight" in a motor vehicle;

(2) Clarifies "expunged convictions" as it relates to falsification
on the application for a permit to carry concealed; define what is
a "loaded firearm" and an "unloaded firearm" in a vehicle or vessel;
and clarify the carry concealed permit renewal process.

(2) Adds a provision that applications to carry a concealed firearm
and renewals to carry a concealed firearm may be accepted at the
county sheriff's office during normal business hours.

(3) Allows for off-duty law enforcement officers may carry a
concealed firearm 24 hours a day 7 days a week (a.k.a 24/7 provision).

(4) Allows an investigator employed by the Ohio Bureau of Criminal
Investigation as defined in section 109.541(A)(1) of the Revised Code
is included in the definition of "Peace Officer".

(5) Creates statewide preemption for the regulation of firearms and
ammunitions therefore avoiding the current patchwork of laws
currently in Ohio.

(6) Further prohibits journalists from abusing the open records law.

(7) Prohibits individuals that are not United States Citizens from
obtaining a license to carry a concealed firearm.

It's great to voice your thoughts about the legislation on this site, but make sure you ALSO contact your state rep and encourage them to sign on to this legislation!!!! Incremental steps in the right direction make a big difference over time and should be supported....just like incremental steps in the WRONG direction should be fought tooth and nail.....That explains why some people are confused when they see the NRA fight so hard on issues that they see as "not that bad", but NRA knows that when you pile a whole bunch of "not that bad" regulations on top of one another, all of a sudden you have a giant mountain of ....... well you get the idea....