An idea for mandatory education for law enforcement

[xpd54]

Wow. 2 years already. Time flies.

If this ever gets traction and OFCC wants a LEO in favor of this to speak to whatever committee needs to hear it, I volunteer.

[JediSkipdogg]

What I need to find out is how the Human Trafficking Training was incorporated into the law so this proposal could pretty much be copied directly from it.

[xpd54]

What I need to find out is how the Human Trafficking Training was incorporated into the law so this proposal could pretty much be copied directly from it.

That's a couple of hours of my life I wish I could get back. More sympathetic victims in HT scenarios.

[JediSkipdogg]

What I need to find out is how the Human Trafficking Training was incorporated into the law so this proposal could pretty much be copied directly from it.

That's a couple of hours of my life I wish I could get back. More sympathetic victims in HT scenarios.

But you would be willing to do it on open and concealed carry? That's what I worry about with a proposal like this. I want to basically mirror the HT one but if it was a total bomb (I am glad for once I'm exempt from that) then I'm sure the FOP and OSP will use that against us.

[xpd54]

What I need to find out is how the Human Trafficking Training was incorporated into the law so this proposal could pretty much be copied directly from it.

That's a couple of hours of my life I wish I could get back. More sympathetic victims in HT scenarios.

But you would be willing to do it on open and concealed carry? That's what I worry about with a proposal like this. I want to basically mirror the HT one but if it was a total bomb (I am glad for once I'm exempt from that) then I'm sure the FOP and OSP will use that against us.

The problem with the HT training was the content and how long they stretched it out. Plus HT is not something most police deal with on a day to day basis. A well thought out, well presented eOPOTA course is a great training opportunity. I've taken numerous eOPOTA courses. Some good, some bad. The UoF refresher they have is pretty good. Use some of that casino money for something that police deal with ALOT - the legally armed citizen.

[Werz]

Wow. 2 years already. Time flies.

If this ever gets traction and OFCC wants a LEO in favor of this to speak to whatever committee needs to hear it, I volunteer.

Do you really want this to work? Keep in mind that, while the Ohio Attorney General is ultimately responsible for the OPOTA curriculum, the overall agenda is set two ways:

• Statutory requirements for specific subjects, which is enacted by the Ohio General Assembly.
• Recommendations of the Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission.

Trying to affect the former will be very difficult. However, I have already suggested that someone, on behalf of OFCC, attend an upcoming meeting of the OPOTC. I can guarantee that the the Colonel of the Ohio State Highway Patrol will argue with you, but there may be other members of the Commission who will listen, particularly when the attorney fees provision of the R.C. 9.68(B) is mentioned.

[JediSkipdogg]

Wow. 2 years already. Time flies.

If this ever gets traction and OFCC wants a LEO in favor of this to speak to whatever committee needs to hear it, I volunteer.

Do you really want this to work? Keep in mind that, while the Ohio Attorney General is ultimately responsible for the OPOTA curriculum, the overall agenda is set two ways:

• Statutory requirements for specific subjects, which is enacted by the Ohio General Assembly.
• Recommendations of the Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission.

Trying to affect the former will be very difficult. However, I have already suggested that someone, on behalf of OFCC, attend an upcoming meeting of the OPOTC. I can guarantee that the the Colonel of the Ohio State Highway Patrol will argue with you, but there may be other members of the Commission who will listen, particularly when the attorney fees provision of the R.C. 9.68(B) is mentioned.

The problem is I don't think we would be targeting anything 9.68 related. 9.68 deals with cities, OPOTC deals with police officers. Our issue isn't that police officers are enforcing illegal city ordinances, it's that they are enforcing ordinances on the books wrong. The research to find lawsuits that cities have paid out on would be extremely hard and I'm sure they are small. The Canton incident was huge, but what was the outcome? A dismissed case and a retired police officer. No lawsuit that shows how wrong he was.

I'd love to go, but I don't feel I'm versed enough in case law to speak about how open carry is not inducing panic or disorderly conduct at it's very nature. We would need someone like yourself or Derek DeBrosse to speak on behalf of OFCC. I'm sure I could prepare a speech, but the second they ask a question, I'd be toast.

[Werz]

The problem is I don't think we would be targeting anything 9.68 related. 9.68 deals with cities, OPOTC deals with police officers.

OK. Forget 9.68. But don't forget the cities and the counties because it will be the city council and county commissioners paying for the litigation and the judgment or settlement. Bring up Call v. Riverside. The OSP Colonel may not care about money spent on litigation and judgment/settlement, but small counties, cities and villages do.

[xpd54]

Wow. 2 years already. Time flies.

If this ever gets traction and OFCC wants a LEO in favor of this to speak to whatever committee needs to hear it, I volunteer.

Do you really want this to work? Keep in mind that, while the Ohio Attorney General is ultimately responsible for the OPOTA curriculum, the overall agenda is set two ways:

• Statutory requirements for specific subjects, which is enacted by the Ohio General Assembly.
• Recommendations of the Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission.

Trying to affect the former will be very difficult. However, I have already suggested that someone, on behalf of OFCC, attend an upcoming meeting of the OPOTC. I can guarantee that the the Colonel of the Ohio State Highway Patrol will argue with you, but there may be other members of the Commission who will listen, particularly when the attorney fees provision of the R.C. 9.68(B) is mentioned.

I'm volunteering to help OFCC if they need a LEO trainer to help present the arguments. The OPOTC is somewhat familiar ground for me. Since I'm an instructor for many of the topics in the Basic Police Curriculum (including the legal block), I think I can intelligently address the deficiencies in the program.

I personally think it will take a mandate from the OGA. Similar to the ORC 109.741-745. Because it'll come down to funding. The Chiefs are gonna ask "who's gonna pay for this?" If it's optional, I think many will opt out. That's why I think the eOPOTA course for current officers and a revised basic legal block curriculum are the best way to see it done.

[Werz]

... Keep in mind that, while the Ohio Attorney General is ultimately responsible for the OPOTA curriculum, the overall agenda is set two ways:

• Statutory requirements for specific subjects, which is enacted by the Ohio General Assembly.
• Recommendations of the Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission.

Trying to affect the former will be very difficult ...

... I personally think it will take a mandate from the OGA. Similar to the ORC 109.741-745. Because it'll come down to funding. The Chiefs are gonna ask "who's gonna pay for this?" If it's optional, I think many will opt out. That's why I think the eOPOTA course for current officers and a revised basic legal block curriculum are the best way to see it done.

I stick by my original assertion. The General Assembly mandates always involve politically correct subject matter with sympathetic victims; just take a look at the sections you cited. People who carry guns do not fall into that category.

I know several past members of the OPOTC, and I know they would have been receptive to what I would say. Simply put, I would warn them that we will not prosecute questionable charges to protect their departments and their officers from civil liability. If they are hoping for a charge, followed by a promise of dismissal in exchange for a signed release of liability, it's not gonna happen. Police command officers tend to get very nervous when you say things like that.

And let's be honest about police officers and training: they like training which increases their authority or which sharpens physical combat skills, but if the training involves limitations on authority or better reporting practices, they aren't interested. If I want to talk about the current search and seizure law and exceptions to the warrant requirement, I will have their attention. If I want to talk about limits on detention and searches of persons carrying firearms, then not so much.

[xpd54]

In the end, I don't care which method would work best. As long as it's addressed. And my offer to help stands.

As far as police officers and training goes, I can say that my experiences with training cops don't match yours. There are always problem children. They're gonna complain and be negative no matter what. They're the minority. At least around my area.