HB279

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:01 am

HB279 is designed to toughen penalties for altering a firearm by changing, altering, removing, or obliterating the name of the manufacturer, model, manufacturer's serial number, or other mark of identification on a handgun; or posessing a firearm that has been modified in that way.

Does this mean it would be a crime to put a target barrel on a glock, since the serial number is stamped on the original barrel? Would changing out any part with the serial number make you in violation of the law?

Post by **NavyChief** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:00 am

Hhmmm... Interesting question. Unintended consequences?

Post by **NavyChief** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:39 am

A BILL

To enact sections 317.082 and 2923.201 of the Revised Code to prohibit a person from changing, altering, removing, or obliterating the name of the manufacturer, model, manufacturer's serial number, or any other mark of identification on a firearm, to prohibit a person from possessing a firearm knowing or having reasonable cause to believe any such mark of identification on the firearm has been changed, altered, removed, or obliterated...

Sec. 2923.201.
(A) No person shall do either of the following:

(1) Change, alter, remove, or obliterate the name of the manufacturer, model, manufacturer's serial number, or other mark of identification on a firearm.

(2) Possess a firearm knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that the name of the manufacturer, model, manufacturer's serial number, or other mark of identification on the firearm has been changed, altered, removed, or obliterated.

(B)(1) Whoever violates division (A)(1) of this section is guilty of defacing identification marks of a firearm. Except as otherwise provided in this division, defacing identification marks of a firearm is a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to a violation of division (A)(1) of this section, defacing identification marks of a firearm is a felony of the fourth degree.

(2) Whoever violates division (A)(2) of this section is guilty of possessing a defaced firearm. Except as otherwise provided in this division, possessing a defaced firearm is a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to a violation of division (A)(2) of this section, possessing a defaced firearm is a felony of the fourth degree.

(C) Division (A) of this section does not apply to any firearm on which no manufacturer's serial number was inscribed at the time of its manufacture.

Source

I am guessing - and keep in mind that's all it is - a guess, that unless the barrel is the only place the firearm serial number is located, it shouldn't be a problem. But I really don't know for sure. While perhaps well-meaning, this could turn into a real bother...

Petrovich · Post by **Petrovich** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:28 am

I think they'd have to prove your intent was unlawful. Using a sporting firarm, for a sporting purpose having sporting modificaitons would be a tough sell for a prosecutor.

Post by **NavyChief** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:51 am

Petrofergov wrote:I think they'd have to prove your intent was unlawful. Using a sporting firarm, for a sporting purpose having sporting modificaitons would be a tough sell for a prosecutor.

I agree. However... We also have "police spokespeople" (in conjunction, I'm sure, with the local prosecutor's office) referring to seven guns as an arsenal in some jusrisdictions. *Sigh*

Post by **TunnelRat** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:20 am

NavyChief wrote:We also have "police spokespeople" (in conjunction, I'm sure, with the local prosecutor's office) referring to seven guns as an arsenal in some jusrisdictions.

"Spokesthugs"...?

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 2:31 pm

(1) Change, alter, remove, or obliterate the name of the manufacturer, model, manufacturer's serial number, or other mark of identification on a firearm.

If you look at the strict letter of the law, you would be removing a serial number. When it comes to firearms, it seems we are forced to follow the strict letter of the law.

jabeatty · Post by **jabeatty** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:59 pm

That "any other mark of identification" phrase could be a lot of fun... what about the previous owner's name that he scratched into the stock? What about import stamps on barrels?

<sigh>

Jim

Post by **NavyChief** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:12 pm

jabeatty wrote:That "any other mark of identification" phrase could be a lot of fun...

And see, that's exactly my problem with this piece of legislation. Sounds good at first, but my ain't the devil in the details?

Buckshot · Post by **Buckshot** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:20 pm

Mark wrote:
(1) Change, alter, remove, or obliterate the name of the manufacturer, model, manufacturer's serial number, or other mark of identification on a firearm.
If you look at the strict letter of the law, you would be removing a serial number. When it comes to firearms, it seems we are forced to follow the strict letter of the law.

Gentlemen,

You are forgetting something.

By Federal Law the serial number MUST be on the receiver, which the Federal Government designates AS the FIREARM.

The ONLY serial number and manufacturer markings rquired on the firearm and the ONLY serial number and manufacturing marks you can not remove is the one on the receiver!

You may well destroy value by removing or changing out additonal serial numbered or partially serial numbered parts, but you are NOT violating Federal Law with regard to firearms.

I know this is State law, but one of thei things the Legal eagles (termites?) in the woodwork of the capitol are supposed to be doing is making this stuff comply with federal law!

Buckshot

Post by **NavyChief** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:23 pm

Buckshot wrote:...but one of the things the Legal eagles (termites?) in the woodwork of the capitol are supposed to be doing is making this stuff comply with federal law!

Roger "supposed to."

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:45 pm

Buckshot wrote:By Federal Law the serial number MUST be on the receiver, which the Federal Government designates AS the FIREARM.

If it's already a federal law, why are our Ohio politicians wasting resources on such dribble?

jabeatty · Post by **jabeatty** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:47 pm

Mark wrote:
Buckshot wrote:By Federal Law the serial number MUST be on the receiver, which the Federal Government designates AS the FIREARM.
If it's already a federal law, why are our Ohio politicians wasting resources on such dribble?

So they can prosecute the cases in Ohio state courts...

Jim

jabeatty · Post by **jabeatty** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:55 pm

By Federal Law the serial number MUST be on the receiver, which the Federal Government designates AS the FIREARM.

Ohio defines firearms (for purposes of this section) as follows:

(B) (1) "Firearm" means any deadly weapon capable of expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of an explosive or combustible propellant. "Firearm" includes an unloaded firearm, and any firearm that is inoperable but that can readily be rendered operable.

(2) When determining whether a firearm is capable of expelling or propelling one or more projectiles by the action of an explosive or combustible propellant, the trier of fact may rely upon circumstantial evidence, including, but not limited to, the representations and actions of the individual exercising control over the firearm.

Jim