Bert DeSouza's 7/17 Vindicator editorial

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Driving While Armed roadblocks?

Poll ended at Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:55 pm

NO WAY!
14
93%
Hang 'em ALL! (CHL no exemption)
0
No votes
Fine, but CHL holders get a pass.
1
7%
 
Total votes: 15

SMMAssociates
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Location: Youngstown OH

Bert DeSouza's 7/17 Vindicator editorial

Post by SMMAssociates »

(Hope I'm in the right section.)

Bert DeSouza, editorial writer for the Youngstown Vindicator, put out an interesting column today (7/17/2005).

Paraphrasing:

"In light of the recent Police chases and other activity, including one in which four men in a stolen car used assault weapons against Youngstown Police Officers, we need YPD to "sweep" the City's streets looking for people who are carrying weapons without a license."

(He did a fair job of not slamming CHL's, although "assault weapon" most likely is not accurate.)

On the face of it, this is a good idea, but Chief Bush is an "anti", and while I'm less willing to label Sheriff Wellington, it's been said that his handling of the initial CHL applications was a bit reluctant, requiring paperwork not in the law, etc.

What concerns me then is that this sort of sweep will likely catch as many LAC's with technical violations of OH's goofy vehicular carry law as it will real criminals, and the the latter will likely suffer a lot less too.

A likely result is that folks from "outside" will stay away in larger numbers, because trying to protect yourself will become even more (legally) dangerous. It's one thing to take the risk of being a lottery win for the family of the "he was a good boy" type who you have to shoot (or even just scare off), and another to risk a hit for just driving down the road within the speed limit.

(What Bert suggested is kinda like DUI "roadblocks".)

This will not be good for Youngstown when the new Convocation Center can't attract local attendees..... Or others choose to stay out of Youngstown entirely for reasons like this.

Those of us in the Youngstown area should drop Bert a note....

(One simple and effective way to get this past "us" is a simple "those who have a CHL and not committing other violations get an automatic pass regardless of compliance with the Vehicular Carry rules." I don't think that the Chief would sign off on that. My crystal ball's a bit cloudy, but I think Sheriff Wellington would go along with that quietly.)

Comments? Suggested Letters? Flames?

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Ring
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Post by Ring »

unless your a fellon, there is nothing inharitly wrong with haveing guns in your car.
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Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Ring is right. In fact, unless you are a felon, there's nothing inherently wrong with having a gun anywhere.
Daniel White
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We must carry arms because we value our lives and those of our loved ones, because we will not be dealt with by force or threat of force, and do not live at the pleasure and discretion of the lawless. - Jeff Snyder
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Ring, Dan:

Only a CHL can have a gun in the glovebox on on his/her belt while in a vehicle. (Or the steal-me box.)

FOPA rules apply to others.

Assuming the "others" aren't otherwise limited out due to other legal issues, like Felonies.

The zinger with the proposed "sweeps" is the Russian Roulette vehicular carry rules, which likely would nail a good many LAC's if the LEO's were in a bad mood, or the Chief or Sheriff requested strict enforcement.

How well would this work out? I have visions of the Prosecutor getting arrested. (He and the Chief don't get along lately.) Might be fun to watch, but from a distance.
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Michael Courtney
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Post by Michael Courtney »

SMMAssociates wrote:Ring, Dan:

Only a CHL can have a gun in the glovebox on on his/her belt while in a vehicle. (Or the steal-me box.)

FOPA rules apply to others.
Not quite. The good citizens of Ohio can all still carry loaded long guns in a vehicle if they meet the requirements for an affirmative defense.

The affirmative defense is no longer available for handguns, but it is unchanged for rifles and shotguns.

The effect of any roadblocks searching for guns not only tramples our rights against unreasonable searches, it also presents serious harassment and substantial legal fees for good citizens who make use of the affirmative defense to carry a rifle or shotgun.

It should be high on the list of fixes to the carry laws to get the affirmative defense reinstituted for handguns also. I carried for many years under the affirmative defense laws and they are much less restrictive than the current state of affairs.

Michael Courtney
Every day is 9/11 for unborn Americans.
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Michael:

Thanks....

I didn't know that the Affirmative Defense still applied to long guns.

(I'm not sure that'd help much on a trip to the bank, or during a carjacking, but I guess a short, legal, shotgun might be of value.)

I agree that the Affirmative Defense needs to be back. The folks who do carry the bank deposits could use it, and don't forget it takes a while to get the THL....

BTW (I posted a longer note elsewhere) the Vindicator's remarks on the Columbus AWB and the NRA tonight (7/19) read like one of our press releases, other than a reference to "hidden weapons", which is an anti buzzword. Not a single mention of Toby Hoover et. al. Unbelievable :!:
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Michael Courtney
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Post by Michael Courtney »

SMMAssociates wrote:Michael:

Thanks....

I didn't know that the Affirmative Defense still applied to long guns.

(I'm not sure that'd help much on a trip to the bank, or during a carjacking, but I guess a short, legal, shotgun might be of value.)
You know, keeping a Mossberg 500 Bantam 20 gauge or a Model 94 Trapper Lever Gun within reach is a completely legal and often advisible approach for someone who has been a victim of domestic violence if there is a propensity for the agressor to violate restraining orders. For bank deposits and such, if you don't have a CHL, it's hard to beat someone waiting in the vehicle or otherwise watching your back with a shotgun.

Concealing long arms in a vehicle is trivial, a blanket does it. In other situations, one needs to be more creative. For a picnic, two viable ideas are those bags used for camp chairs and those 100-120 quart ice chests. (Camp chair bags work well in a variety of settings.) Guitar cases work well and draw zero attention. In retail settings, it's easy to mount a shotgun under a counter. A large gym bag can also work for portability with minimal attention in many settings.

You can't quite discretely tote a long gun all the places you can bring a pistol, but one need never be further away than your vehicle, and it can often be kept much closer than that. Unless I'm on prohibited ground, I'm typically between 2 and 10 seconds from being able to bring a long gun to bear.

Michael Courtney
Every day is 9/11 for unborn Americans.
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