HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby WhyNot » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 pm

Wait a minute!!

I remember this bill was touted as a will - pass, and, even in case of a Kasichich veto, the Senate would be ''tuff enuff'' to override the veto.

Shucks, sure sounds like they can't even ovverride some red shirts in the audience without going partial bloat & belly up; who thinks they can withstand the .02 mph ''harsh'' wind :o of the rhetoric that be a-comin', AFTER an actual veto??
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:37 pm

The controversial legislation no longer includes an elimination of the "duty to retreat" for people who find themselves in threatening situations. Opponents argued that removing that language from Ohio code would make it for people to use lethal force in self-defense.

The changes made to HB228 means it no longer has the language usually associated with a "Stand Your Ground" bill. Instead, the bill primarily focuses on other parts of self-defense law, including a shift of the burden of proof from the defense to the prosecution in such cases.


http://www.statenews.org/post/ohio-senate-strips-stand-your-ground-language-out-stand-your-ground-bill
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby FormerNavy » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:47 pm

Does this bill do anything good for us at this point? Sorry but I've been out of the loop so I don't know what is the current list of changes.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby XDAVEX » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:00 pm

From the sounds of it, not much. We were so close!
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:02 pm

Looks like they posted the latest version here:

http://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_132/bills/hb228/RS/03?format=pdf

I'm still digesting this but it still has presumption of innocence and a strengthening of ORC 9.68. It also looks like they rolled SB 208 into it which expands where off-duty LEO can carry.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rickt » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:31 pm

COLUMBUS, Ohio – The Ohio Senate passed a firearm bill Thursday afternoon, but removed a provision commonly known as “stand your ground” that had been in the original version of the legislation.

House Bill 228 passed 29 to 10, largely along party lines. The measure now heads back to the House, where members will have to decide whether to accept the Senate’s changes. If the House rejects them, a conference committee with members in both chambers will meet to try to reconcile the differences between each chamber’s version of the bill.


https://www.cleveland.com/open/2018/12/ohio-senate-passes-firearms-billbut-without-stand-your-ground-provisions.html
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby rottman43055 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:56 pm

I get that removing the affirmative defense and shifting the burden of proof to the prosecution like any other alleged crime is a good thing. This may be a silly question, but as a practical matter in the real world will this help those unfortunate enough to be put in that spot?

I'm assuming the way it is currently you are assumed guilty until you prove otherwise and I'm curious what real life positive impact this will have.

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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby Chuck » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:27 pm

House concurrence vote:
59-21, with at least 5 more "yes" votes not in attendance due to the late hour.
It appears we have a veto proof margin in both chambers, but no room to spare in the Senate

HB 228 was amended in the Senate to add the contents of HB 208, which allowed more carry for LEOs, and also amended to removed all language concerning duty to retreat. It also removed that unlicensed -carrying-in-a-car-will-be-only-a-minor-misdemeanor thing you guys were complaining about

Still in the bill is ORC 9.68 reform, tort reform No charge for forgetting your CHL at home, moving hands during a traffic stop, and the Mossberg Shockwave will be legal
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:39 pm

Thanks for the update Chuck. Do you know what happened to HB142? The earlier news report sounded like it may have gotten acted on as well.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby djthomas » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:52 pm

And churches must now post.
Never ask if you can carry at a non-posted place, but always ask why you cannot at one that is!
Just because they offer call ahead seating doesn't mean you call ahead for carry permission.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby WestonDon » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:25 pm

Chuck wrote:House concurrence vote:
59-21, with at least 5 more "yes" votes not in attendance due to the late hour.
It appears we have a veto proof margin in both chambers, but no room to spare in the Senate

HB 228 was amended in the Senate to add the contents of HB 208, which allowed more carry for LEOs, and also amended to removed all language concerning duty to retreat. It also removed that unlicensed -carrying-in-a-car-will-be-only-a-minor-misdemeanor thing you guys were complaining about

Still in the bill is ORC 9.68 reform, tort reform No charge for forgetting your CHL at home, moving hands during a traffic stop, and the Mossberg Shockwave will be legal


Well, I am disappointed about duty to retreat but I suppose on balance this is a net positive for us. Still, with republicans holding both houses and the goobernator it shouldn't be so dang difficult.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby JimE » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:19 pm

WestonDon wrote:
Well, I am disappointed about duty to retreat but I suppose on balance this is a net positive for us. Still, with republicans holding both houses and the goobernator it shouldn't be so dang difficult.


It only takes a couple of rino's to leave so much dung, everyone wants to walk around it rather than chase them off and and have to clean up the mess.
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby JustaShooter » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:09 pm

djthomas wrote:And churches must now post.

And it looks like statutory no-carry zones that have decided to allow carry by rule, policy, etc *still* have to post no-guns signs since they are a "place or premises identified in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code as a place into which a valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun,"

Or am I missing something?
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby xpd54 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:28 pm

Why did they add this definition to the dangerous ordnance definition?

(7) Any firearm with an overall length of at least twenty-
six inches that is approved for sale by the federal bureau of
alcohol, tobacco, firearms, and explosives under the "Gun
Control Act of 1968," 82 Stat. 1213, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3), but
that is found by the bureau not to be regulated under the
"National Firearms Act," 68A Stat. 725 (1934), 26 U.S.C.
5845(a).


The way I now read it, the law now states that sawed-off firearms doesn’t include:

Sawed-off firearm" does not include any
firearm with an overall length of at least twenty-six inches
that is approved for sale by the federal bureau of alcohol,
tobacco, firearms, and explosives under the "Gun Control Act of
1968," 82 Stat. 1213, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(3), but that is found by
the bureau not to be regulated under the "National Firearms
Act," 68A Stat. 725 (1934), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a).


So it’s not a sawed off firearm now, but it is a dangerous ordnance? What’s the point of that?
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Re: HB 228: Stand your ground + other changes

Postby Chuck » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:46 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:Thanks for the update Chuck. Do you know what happened to HB142? The earlier news report sounded like it may have gotten acted on as well.


HB 142 died in committee. It may still be raised, amended, and voted on, but there isn't enough time to over ride a veto if the governor waits his full ten days before issuing it.
So I'm sitting in a senator's office, standing firm on original language or nothing, and he's telling me that "others" are calling us a little extreme and unreasonable for not taking an incremental approach towards itand I say if HB228 is going to pass it makes failing to notify a minor misdemeanor anyway so 142 didn't really matter.
All it would do was change notification to whenever the cop asked for ID, which is more confusing, if you ask me.

That's the story.

My question is, do we try for it again next session, hopefully smarter and more productive?
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