DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby OhioPaints » Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:05 am

SMMAssociates wrote:Can't cite the details but there was an OVI (DUI) case just recently that was against the defendant. The defendant had come out of a bar and decided that he/she was too drunk to safely drive so went to sleep in the back seat. Having the keys was sufficient to get the conviction.

I presume that the Court's attitude assumed that the defendant could have gone from "nap mode" to "driver mode" in seconds. Seems logical.... But I can't see a conviction for "driver mode" when the defendant was asleep in the back seat.


Following that logic :roll: , why not arrest him as he walks our of the bar, since he could get in the car? :( Or even in the bar if the car is parked close. :( He could probably have driven off faster from outside the car than from asleep in the back seat.

Whether this would carry to the Felony Touching statute I don't know.... But common sense is kinda dead in the CHL law anyway. We may have two conflicting definitions - that could get the Supreme Court involved if something went that far but don't count on it.


As a lawyer told us a long time ago, "do not confuse logic with the law". How is someone supposed to get a gun into and out of the center console without touching it? I can see throwing it in from the curb and hoping it lands in the right spot :roll: but how do you get it back out? :twisted:

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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby BobK » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:52 am

OhioPaints wrote:How is someone supposed to get a gun into and out of the center console without touching it?

Eazy-Peezy, Ken! Just keep your pistol wrapped in tinfoil so you don't touch it!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby SMMAssociates » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:06 pm

OhioPaints wrote:Following that logic :roll: , why not arrest him as he walks our of the bar, since he could get in the car? :( Or even in the bar if the car is parked close. :( He could probably have driven off faster from outside the car than from asleep in the back seat.

Ken:

" :roll: " pretty well covers it.... :) There are laws that could be invoked with respect to walking around drunk, but I think the "operating" law (as it ought to be) is the only one out there that applies if you actually drive away. What we have here is a "thought crime", IMHO.

As a lawyer told us a long time ago, "do not confuse logic with the law".

Wise man....

How is someone supposed to get a gun into and out of the center console without touching it? I can see throwing it in from the curb and hoping it lands in the right spot :roll: but how do you get it back out?

This is what happens when the uninformed (or uneducated) attempt to control areas that are somewhat more advanced.... Kinda like letting one of the horses create the specs for a saddle. While they probably could tell you what they like, or what feels good, they're really not equipped to judge safety, ease-of-installation, etc.

Not to mention the "we let these people vote?" factor....

"Felony Touching" had, I think, two purposes, back in the day.... First, to punish you for uncovering a gun that wasn't "in plain sight" during a traffic stop, and second as one more "don't wave it around" law. "Officer Safety" is also a concern, of course, but "Plain Sight" punished our safety....

With the demise of "plain sight", it becomes absurd. There are alternative laws against "improper handling", and no need to confuse the issue with this.

So, we end up having a law that's unenforceable, and forces us to break it every time we get into a vehicle.... Doesn't help "respect for the law" a bit....

Regards,
Stu.

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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby Bruenor » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:58 am

Keys in pocket is apparently also at officers discretion..

My final day at a job in Twinsburg, (Was much younger, and maybe not using enough common sense) I went out with the guys from work to a local bar, and drank far too much. I thought that would happen so I had planned to just sleep in the car, in the bars parking lot, not knowing at the time that could be considered DUI. I crashed in the back seat with the keys on the floor next to me.

Around 6:00 AM a rap on the window and it's the OSHP wanting to know what I'm doing. I explained to them I had drank too much the night before and thought driving would be foolish, so instead I decided to sleep in my car. They ran my license told me I had a warrant in Cleveland but was outside the pickup radius (Apparently I had failed to pay a ticked for a loud exhaust). They said thanks for making the decision not to drive, and left. I was in the front of the car at this point and went back to sleep.

About 7:30 AM another rap on the window, this time it's the Twinsburg police. I repeated my story, told them the OSHP had been by an hour an a half earlier, and that when they had run my license the warrant came up. Twinsburg ran the license, gave it back to me and said thanks for not driving. They too left, I drove home about 9:00 AM with a whopping headache..

I'm glad they both felt I made the right decision and didn't decide to punish me for just being drunk in a vehicle with a set of keys. That could have turned into a really expensive last day of work..


So if you only touch the holster to place it in the glove box that would avoid touching the firearm no ?
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby SMMAssociates » Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:58 am

Bruenor wrote:Keys in pocket is apparently also at officers discretion..

Bruenor:

Good choice!

Your "incident" may have preceded the "keys in pocket" ruling, or the Officers didn't know about it. You also may have been below the BAC limit in their estimation by the time they found you, too.

So if you only touch the holster to place it in the glove box that would avoid touching the firearm no ?

Guess you could get away with that, but if Officer Unfriendly was watching, it'd be an interesting test case.... :D

Regards,
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby edward137 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:37 pm

Sevesteen wrote:I'm curious about the definition of "operating a motor vehicle" as it applies to handling a firearm in a car. There doesn't appear to be a clear definition of "operating", so I would think precedent set by DUI law would apply. People have been convicted for being in a parked car while drunk with keys. Wouldn't that seem to indicate that unless 239 passes, we effectively can't move a gun between legal places in our car while parked on the street?

Bruenor wrote:Keys in pocket is apparently also at officers discretion..

My final day at a job in Twinsburg, (Was much younger, and maybe not using enough common sense) I went out with the guys from work to a local bar, and drank far too much. I thought that would happen so I had planned to just sleep in the car, in the bars parking lot, not knowing at the time that could be considered DUI. I crashed in the back seat with the keys on the floor next to me.

Around 6:00 AM a rap on the window and it's the OSHP wanting to know what I'm doing. I explained to them I had drank too much the night before and thought driving would be foolish, so instead I decided to sleep in my car. They ran my license told me I had a warrant in Cleveland but was outside the pickup radius (Apparently I had failed to pay a ticked for a loud exhaust). They said thanks for making the decision not to drive, and left. I was in the front of the car at this point and went back to sleep.

About 7:30 AM another rap on the window, this time it's the Twinsburg police. I repeated my story, told them the OSHP had been by an hour an a half earlier, and that when they had run my license the warrant came up. Twinsburg ran the license, gave it back to me and said thanks for not driving. They too left, I drove home about 9:00 AM with a whopping headache..

I'm glad they both felt I made the right decision and didn't decide to punish me for just being drunk in a vehicle with a set of keys. That could have turned into a really expensive last day of work..


So if you only touch the holster to place it in the glove box that would avoid touching the firearm no ?


Hi sevesteen,
I also had a very bad experience like you. I was in Las Vegas some 3 months ago. It raining and i fully drunked and have my car but due to that i decide to avoid driving instead i prefer to sleep in my car. After some time cop arrived and they fine for that about 100 dollars and also make call to my DUI lawyer to del with the cops. So Guys avoid drinking when you have a car to drive to your home.
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby mike121 » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:15 am

OhioPaints wrote:
SMMAssociates wrote:Can't cite the details but there was an
DUI Law Center case just recently that was against the defendant. The defendant had come out of a bar and decided that he/she was too drunk to safely drive so went to sleep in the back seat. Having the keys was sufficient to get the conviction.

I presume that the Court's attitude assumed that the defendant could have gone from "nap mode" to "driver mode" in seconds. Seems logical.... But I can't see a conviction for "driver mode" when the defendant was asleep in the back seat.


Following that logic :roll: , why not arrest him as he walks our of the bar, since he could get in the car? :( Or even in the bar if the car is parked close. :( He could probably have driven off faster from outside the car than from asleep in the back seat.

Whether this would carry to the Felony Touching statute I don't know.... But common sense is kinda dead in the CHL law anyway. We may have two conflicting definitions - that could get the Supreme Court involved if something went that far but don't count on it.


As a lawyer told us a long time ago, "do not confuse logic with the law". How is someone supposed to get a gun into and out of the center console without touching it? I can see throwing it in from the curb and hoping it lands in the right spot :roll: but how do you get it back out? :twisted:

Ken



Hi
Firstly read all the guidelines of DUI laws.
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby Brian D. » Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:23 am

Welcome, Edward. I socialize over cigars with a rather prominent DUI attorney down here in the Cincinnati area. His number is stored in my phone where it can be easily accessed, even though I don't think his services will be needed. Anyhow, the only legal* way to sleep it off in the vehicle is with the keys not directly accessible to you. In my case that would be sleeping with the front seat reclined, after tossing my keys into the rear storage area of my Jeep, well out of reach.

* Even doing all that, my lawyer pal says you might still get hauled in. And of course laws vary from one state to another.
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby Javelin Man » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:37 am

Holy Dead Thread, Batman!

But welcome, Edward and Mike! :D

Excellent use of the search function to find answers to interested topics to yourself. There is (are?) over a dozen years of information, legal definitions and two-bit opinions on this forum.

Some of the finest minds on this forum are no longer with us; Tweed Ring, Scavok, Tunnel Rat among others (RIP :( ). other members can chime in to give names of people you can look up for their valuable advice.
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:41 am

Javelin Man wrote:Holy Dead Thread, Batman!
...


I panicked at the horribly wrong quote from 2923.16 before I realized the post was from over 6 years ago. :oops:
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby elly10 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:42 am

Sevesteen wrote:I'm curious about the definition of "operating a motor vehicle" as it applies to handling a firearm in a car. There doesn't appear to be a clear definition of "operating", so I would think precedent set by Online dui law classes Nevada would apply. People have been convicted for being in a parked car while drunk with keys. Wouldn't that seem to indicate that unless 239 passes, we effectively can't move a gun between legal places in our car while parked on the street?


Hi
There are two types of punishment resulting from being convicted of a "Driving under the Influence" (DUI) (also known as an OWI, DWI, or OVI in different states) charge. The first type of punishment is administrative and results in having your license suspended
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Re: DUI law sets precedent for "operating" until 239 passes?

Postby Mustang380gal » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:57 am

Two of the one-post wonders have IP addresses that are from Queensland Australia. The other guy has one that is not showing up, but may be from that area too.

I think this thread is too old, attracting spammers, and is lock-worthy.
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