HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby M-Quigley » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:57 pm

JonasM wrote:I'm looking at the bright side - the change to the school zone rules is YUGE for me. My daughter's school is in a rural area, with a long driveway - no possible way to park outside without getting the car towed and inviting questions from every single person who sees me. If I have to go there for an event after work, then I am disarmed all day. I'll take what I can get at this point.


I agree. The current convoluted law is ridiculous.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JEaton » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:00 pm

Brian D. wrote:About the school premises prohibition: Am I the only one who, while traveling around unfamiliar parts of Ohio, turned down a road to make a U-turn or stop to glance at my map/GPS, only to realize that it was the entrance to an elementary or high school property? Yeah no harm no foul but still, my brain said "Oops, instant felon, three hots and a cot for you the next couple years". That is completely ridiculous, there are circumstances where I could maim or kill someone with the same vehicle and not get that kind of punishment.

Maybe I should just get a few of the fence sitting Representatives and Senators to take a road trips with me across the state.


Similar thing happened to me 2 weeks ago. Had a meeting with a school about FASTER Saves Lives after work and forgot to disarm before I left for work that morning. Luckily there was still a gun friendly coworker in the office when I went to leave for the school board meeting. "Here nice coworker, take this bag of mine home with you tonight and please bring it back to me in the morning!" :D

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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JustaShooter » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:49 pm

So, here's a fun observation found on another forum:

Newly created R.C. § 2923.1210 by Sub. S. B. 199 appears to be broader in scope than applying to just employers and employees. It states: “A business entity, property owner, or public or private employer may not establish, maintain, or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting a person…” Would this not apply to parking lot postings at, for example, a shopping center—or an employer’s parking lot? One would just have to comply with the condition of locking it in the vehicle before exiting.


Interesting observation - and I don't see anything that would contradict that interpretation.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby WestonDon » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:50 pm

JustaShooter wrote:So, here's a fun observation found on another forum:

Newly created R.C. § 2923.1210 by Sub. S. B. 199 appears to be broader in scope than applying to just employers and employees. It states: “A business entity, property owner, or public or private employer may not establish, maintain, or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting a person…” Would this not apply to parking lot postings at, for example, a shopping center—or an employer’s parking lot? One would just have to comply with the condition of locking it in the vehicle before exiting.


Interesting observation - and I don't see anything that would contradict that interpretation.


Hmmm. What about universities?
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JustaShooter » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:25 pm

WestonDon wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:So, here's a fun observation found on another forum:

Newly created R.C. § 2923.1210 by Sub. S. B. 199 appears to be broader in scope than applying to just employers and employees. It states: “A business entity, property owner, or public or private employer may not establish, maintain, or enforce a policy or rule that prohibits or has the effect of prohibiting a person…” Would this not apply to parking lot postings at, for example, a shopping center—or an employer’s parking lot? One would just have to comply with the condition of locking it in the vehicle before exiting.


Interesting observation - and I don't see anything that would contradict that interpretation.


Hmmm. What about universities?


Well, one would think that they fall under the category of "public or private employer" , if not "“A business entity, property owner", so yeah...
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby fyrfytr310 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:38 pm

My research skills are lacking... Does this have any bearing on county fair buildings?
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:37 pm

fyrfytr310 wrote:My research skills are lacking... Does this have any bearing on county fair buildings?

The Act, as passed and signed, has no effect on county fair buildings.

Unfortunately, they stripped out the provision removing government facilities from the statutory no-carry list and replaced it with a provision that political subdivisions *can* pass laws or enact rules allowing it, but we know how many will be lining up on March 20 to do so...
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby Rhino » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:15 am

So who has some time and would like to help with edits/suggested changes to the new version of my concealed carry guide?

http://home.earthlink.net/~simmoh/Conde ... W_Ed_4.pdf

Come on, you know you want to!
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:12 am

As much as I would like to help, I simply do not have the time.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby Rhino » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:11 pm

Thanks for thinking about it at least. I'm sure someone will chime in. I'd really like to have a second set of eyes look at it before handgunlaw.us posts the new edition on the 27th.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby Rhino » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:50 pm

Is OAC 128-4-02 something we should be looking to change? (G)(10) reads "(10) Weapons - with the exception of those carried by peace officers in the course of their duties and as expressly authorized under division (N) of section 105.41 of the Revised Code, firearms or other weapons, concealed or otherwise, are prohibited within the capitol buildings and grounds without the express written permission of the board." Wasn't the prohibition on the grounds removed by HB 495 back in 2013? It also seems to conflict with ORC 2923.126(B)(7).
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby djthomas » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:44 am

Rhino wrote:Is OAC 128-4-02 something we should be looking to change? (G)(10) reads "(10) Weapons - with the exception of those carried by peace officers in the course of their duties and as expressly authorized under division (N) of section 105.41 of the Revised Code, firearms or other weapons, concealed or otherwise, are prohibited within the capitol buildings and grounds without the express written permission of the board." Wasn't the prohibition on the grounds removed by HB 495 back in 2013? It also seems to conflict with ORC 2923.126(B)(7).

I'm sure some of our more local activists can weigh in but the board seems to know they are on shaky ground in light of ORC 9.68 and some folks at the AG's office have unofficially said so. Officially the board will say that state law allows them to make rules, ergo any rule they pass concerning weapons is pursuant to state law, thus lawful under 9.68. They will also say that the rule went through JCAR as all rules do, thus the General Assembly had an opportunity to veto it but declined to do so. However, when push comes to shove the board has quietly given permission for weapons at rallies which has the legal effect of mooting the immediate controversy. Clearly the board isn't as confident in its legal position as it likes to portray.

I can also add that in the half dozen times I've been in Columbus since this rule went into effect I've made it a point to openly carry a full size pistol across the grounds and I've never once been hassled. I've gotten (and returned) a nod from OSHP personnel once or twice.

Be that as it may I suspect there's not going to be much political will to strike this rule; it's funny how squeamish some Republicans get when it comes to the land around their office.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby Rhino » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:38 am

I figured it would be something like that. Once again our legislature is too busy to expend any effort to clean up and simplify the code, despite the fact that some of their work would be easier if they did. Thanks.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby Rhino » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:47 pm

From the legislature web site (https://www.legislature.ohio.gov/legisl ... 131-SB-199):

Final analysis of SB199.

Final text of the bill as passed by the Senate.

Final text of the bill as enrolled

I'm not sure what the difference between "as passed" and "as enrolled" are. "As passed" has blank signature blocks at the bottom, making it appear incomplete, thus making me think the "as enrolled link was the latest version. But the number in the "as passed" link is higher than the number in the link for "as enrolled", making it seem as if "as passed" is the latest version. Neither document is dated. If somebody knows the difference, please enlighten me.
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Re: HB 48: Remove some CPZs; modify affirmative defense

Postby JustaShooter » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:25 pm

From the OGA website:
ENROLLED BILL
A printed version of a bill that is prepared when the bill has passed both houses in identical form. The enrolled bill
is signed by the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate and becomes an act awaiting the Governor’s
approval.


The Enrolled bill is the version of the bill that will be added to Ohio law if signed by the governor.
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