ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

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Island Runner
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Island Runner »

Thanks Stryker74! That is my exact plan of attack. I just sent in my VAF application, wait for that approval, go buy a firearm at my local FFL, and then work on the CHL. I started this whole process in April of 2014 and it has already taken 14+ months and I was under disability for over 15 years! Yea it sucks, but what is another 4-6 months. I can wait that time to be FINALLY done with this and put the past behind me. I stopped in at my local FFL who is a good friend and he recommended the same. He said not to even try to purchase until i get the VAF UPIN. He said it would be a waste of time and may throw up a red flag that could possibly delay an already lengthy process. I also called the FBI NICS phone number and confirmed that I do not need to attempt a purchase before applying for the VAF. You are OK to apply for the VAF berfore attempting a purchase.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Stryker74 wrote: I am not a lawyer - but you might want to get the VAF paperwork done before applying for a CHL. Since the CHL now runs through NICS, it will potentially come back as denied like the firearm purchase may until that VAF is in place...
Good catch, Stryker.

The VAF should definitely come first now that Ohio includes NICS.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Island Runner »

Well everyone, just an update on this and on my VAF application. I received a letter from the FBI in late June that my application had been received. I called the FBI in June to see how long of a backlog they were experiencing, and in June the automated recording said they were processing VAF applications from Nov. of 2014. I called again around the end of August and they said they were processing applications from Dec. 2014. I called again last Friday, Dec. 4th and the automated system said they were processing applications from Jan. 2015! So in 6 months they processed 3 months worth of applications. At that rate, it seems as if they will get to mine in 10-12 more months! Is this normal?

I also have a family member who is retired FBI with his FFL and after looking over all my certified copies of my court orders from my restoration of firearms rights rights and my record sealing, he said I am 100% legal to own and posses a firearm. He recommended that my wife buy (as a gift for me) whatever I want until my VAF application is completed as it is not considered a "straw purchase" because I am 100% legal and "straw purchases" only apply to people who are buying for someone under a firearms disability. Is this correct? I have spent years now doing all this the correct way through the proper channels and don't want to break any laws but I really hate to just keep waiting and waiting for another 10-12 months. What do all you think?
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by JustaShooter »

Island Runner wrote: He recommended that my wife buy (as a gift for me) whatever I want until my VAF application is completed as it is not considered a "straw purchase" because I am 100% legal and "straw purchases" only apply to people who are buying for someone under a firearms disability. Is this correct?
No. Any firearm purchase where a firearm is being bought on behalf of another, whether or not that person is under disability, is a straw purchase according to the ATF.
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Island Runner
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Island Runner »

Hi all. Just checking back for another question and an update on my progress of this.

So after having my record sealed/expunged (Oct. 2014) and was granted relief from statutory disability to posses a firearm. I have filed for the VAF in June 2015. Still waiting on that. My father-in-law is a FFL holder that suggested I attempt a purchase since I had not tried since I got my relief from disability and my firearms rights restored. I did that about a month ago. I was delayed for a few days and was denied. I filed an appeal and 2 days ago received my letter stating I was denied because of a state prohibitor. So knowing I have only been in trouble in Ohio, I called the Ohio BCI for any info they could give me. A very helpful woman handled my call and after a few minutes discovered that the BCI had received my paperwork from the courts back in Dec. 2014 and had done nothing whatsoever with them! She explained that through personnel changes and heavy backlog at the BCI, my case had somehow fell through the cracks and was never entered or taken out of the system! She apologized profusely and said she would get my case to her supervisor immediately and things would be rectified ASAP. Today I received a call from the BCI saying they were very sorry for mishandling of my case and said that they had sealed my record etc. this morning and that I was good to go and there was nothing else I needed to do. Great news and at least that is taken care of. So then I call the FBI and to see how this affects everything. The lady at the FBI was very nice and helpful. I explained I had a VAF application in and an appeal going on. She was able to see my VAF application, my appeal, and pull up all my state restoration/sealing documents and said I should have zero problem as everything looked as good as it could. She said now it was just a wait for it to all get processed.

That said, when I questioned the BCI on what I should do next or how to proceed with things, they told me to try to purchase again every week or so until I am given a proceed. I asked the FBI about this advice and the FBI said there is nothing wrong with trying again if the State of Ohio had finally got things corrected on their end. I asked if I would be denied because of my recent denial a month ago and she said that has no affect on any new attempts. She stated that every check is independent of each other and just because I was denied a month ago, that does not give them the right for an automatic denial on subsequent checks. I had always thought that once denied, always denied until you went through a VAF or appeal but that seems not to be the case. Just as a precaution, I called the FBI again, talked to a different person, and was told the exact same thing. Both agents told me it was OK to attempt another purchase now that the state has updated their records and any previous denial has no affect whatsoever. Both the agents also recommended attempting another purchase to see what happens.

My question is should I attempt another purchase? Should I wait a few weeks? Should I do nothing at all and just keep waiting on my VAF to get processed? At the rate they are going and current backlogs, even though I have had my VAF application in for 10 months now (June 2015), they are currently processing VAF applications from Jan. 2015 and I may have another 10 months to wait! When my VAF letter back from the FBI in June 2015, they were processing applications from Nov. 2014! In 10 months they have only made up 3 months in backlogs! :shock: What is a guy to do? Any advice is appreciated!
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Brian D. »

Since your father-in-law has an FFL and seems willing to help, why not go ahead and try again?
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

If you are not embarrassed by NICS denials, attempt a purchase every week.

However, until the VAF goes through, I doubt the FBI will update their records with the changes BCI made.

But stranger things have happened.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Island Runner »

Brian D. wrote:Since your father-in-law has an FFL and seems willing to help, why not go ahead and try again?
Well, I will probably do that. My only concern is this: When the FBI runs a new NICS check, do they just search my name against some interstate database that Ohio has supposedly has supposedly sealed? If so, I assume I would get a proceed. I know the FBI can still see the original conviction even though it is sealed because they told me so today. Or does it take time for the FBI to see that they are sealed and then need time to verify that? Or does the FBI keep a file on that has every prohibited person in a database of their own and maybe Ohio contacts them saying this guy's records are sealed and his firearms rights are restored and then they need to verify that and update their database? I figured someone here would know a bit more. The first lady I spoke with at the BCI said that her supervisor would have to contact the FBI after my records were sealed, maybe she is correct maybe not. That is what is holding me back from trying again. Maybe they need to get forms by mail from BCI and then update their daatbase. I just don't know and figured someone here might know. At the rate the FBI is going with their current backlog, if they need to get something from the BCI and update their info, I don't expect them to get it done anytime soon. Just so frustrated with this. I am so close yet so far away it seems.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Brian D. »

Even with all the knowledgeable members here, I will be impressed if someone here knows the for-sure answers to your questions. They'd have to have an accurate, up to the minute understanding of the working relationship between Ohio BCI and the FBI, and maybe more insider information besides.

That would be pretty small subset of people, I do believe.
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Brian D.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Brian D. »

I understand your frustration, by the way.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by WY_Not »

Right. But not all straw sales are illegal. Spouse buying for spouse, where both are legal to own, is legal. I've done it a few times. Bought firearms in pairs, aka his and hers. Both in my name, FFL knew what was going on, and no issues. Buying a firearm as a gift for someone is legal. What makes it illegal is if the receiving party s is not legal to own and the buyer knows such or if one party gives the other goods, services, or money to go buy something for them. The OP's situation kinda throws a monkey wrench into the works though.
JustaShooter wrote:
Island Runner wrote: He recommended that my wife buy (as a gift for me) whatever I want until my VAF application is completed as it is not considered a "straw purchase" because I am 100% legal and "straw purchases" only apply to people who are buying for someone under a firearms disability. Is this correct?
No. Any firearm purchase where a firearm is being bought on behalf of another, whether or not that person is under disability, is a straw purchase according to the ATF.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Island Runner »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If you are not embarrassed by NICS denials, attempt a purchase every week.

However, until the VAF goes through, I doubt the FBI will update their records with the changes BCI made.

But stranger things have happened.
Thanks. I am not embarrassed at all since my FFL is family. I would be extremely embarrassed anywhere else. He is willing to help me any way he can. The more I think about it I am thinking more along your lines that the FBI has no one to make them update their records until the VAF goes through. Hell the BCI probably would not have done so if it were not for my calls! Maybe I will call the FBI again tonight and see if I can get anymore info on their process on updating their records if they will tell me. If not I will give it a week or so and attempt another purchase. I was just unsure if there were multiple databases that my info could be in. Ohio seals theirs and the FBI still leaves their record open until someone forces it kinda thing.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by Island Runner »

WY_Not wrote:Right. But not all straw sales are illegal. Spouse buying for spouse, where both are legal to own, is legal. I've done it a few times. Bought firearms in pairs, aka his and hers. Both in my name, FFL knew what was going on, and no issues. Buying a firearm as a gift for someone is legal. What makes it illegal is if the receiving party s is not legal to own and the buyer knows such or if one party gives the other goods, services, or money to go buy something for them. The OP's situation kinda throws a monkey wrench into the works though.
JustaShooter wrote:
Island Runner wrote: He recommended that my wife buy (as a gift for me) whatever I want until my VAF application is completed as it is not considered a "straw purchase" because I am 100% legal and "straw purchases" only apply to people who are buying for someone under a firearms disability. Is this correct?
No. Any firearm purchase where a firearm is being bought on behalf of another, whether or not that person is under disability, is a straw purchase according to the ATF.
You are correct, gifting is not illegal. My father in-law is retired FBI, ex police chief, and an FFL holder who says the exact same thing. This whole thing of passing a NICS check has everything to do with me obtaining my CCW permit and really nothing to do with buying a gun.
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by WY_Not »

Yep. Hence the monkey wrench. :wink:
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Re: ORC 2923.14 Restoration of Firearms Rights

Post by JustaShooter »

WY_Not wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
Island Runner wrote: He recommended that my wife buy (as a gift for me) whatever I want until my VAF application is completed as it is not considered a "straw purchase" because I am 100% legal and "straw purchases" only apply to people who are buying for someone under a firearms disability. Is this correct?
No. Any firearm purchase where a firearm is being bought on behalf of another, whether or not that person is under disability, is a straw purchase according to the ATF.
Right. But not all straw sales are illegal. Spouse buying for spouse, where both are legal to own, is legal. I've done it a few times. Bought firearms in pairs, aka his and hers. Both in my name, FFL knew what was going on, and no issues. Buying a firearm as a gift for someone is legal. What makes it illegal is if the receiving party s is not legal to own and the buyer knows such or if one party gives the other goods, services, or money to go buy something for them. The OP's situation kinda throws a monkey wrench into the works though.
You should read up on the Abramski case - ruled a straw purchase by the Supreme court, even though both individuals involved were allowed to possess firearms. If you buy a firearm as a gift for someone, that's fine. But, if you buy it *on behalf of another*, it is a straw purchase and is illegal even if neither are prohibited persons. So, you as a law-abiding citizen with a clean record who could pass a NICS check, give me money to go buy a particular gun, and I (obviously, also a law-abiding citizen able to pass a NICS check) go and buy the gun for you, that is an illegal straw purchase.

Edit: Sorry, I missed the part where you clarified that " if one party gives the other goods, services, or money to go buy something for them. "
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