NICS

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glove
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NICS

Post by glove »

Hello Everyone
I will try this again. Now that CCW renewal goes through NICS what happens if you get a delay? As you know there are three results Proceed :D , Delay :shock: or Denial. :cry: Now when buying a pistol you get a proceed you take the pistol home now. You get a delay you wait 3 days to get your pistol. You get a denial you do not get your pistol. So at your renewal you get a delay do you come back in 3 days to pick up your permit?
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JediSkipdogg
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Re: NICS

Post by JediSkipdogg »

Well, since I'm not aware of any counties that issue right then and there, you wait anyways. Some may issue same day, but unless you want to sit in the lobby all day, you won't notice a difference.
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Re: NICS

Post by glove »

JediSkipdogg
When I went to Wayne County for my first renewal it took maybe 15 minutes to get my new permit. But that was before they went to the NICS check.
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Re: NICS

Post by JustaShooter »

JediSkipdogg wrote:Well, since I'm not aware of any counties that issue right then and there, you wait anyways.
That would be my guess - it's not like you never get a response to a Delay, as I understand it, it *will* come back with a Proceed or Deny at some point. If it comes back within 45 days, well, that's all within the bounds of the allowable time frame anyway. If it doesn't, then I would imagine the Sheriff will issue the license and if it eventually comes back as a Deny then he'll revoke it.
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Re: NICS

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

JustaShooter wrote:... it's not like you never get a response to a Delay, as I understand it, it *will* come back with a Proceed or Deny at some point...
You may want to check with some of the FFL's. Never getting a response is why they have the 72-hour limit. If an FFL hasn't got a response after 72 hours, they may choose to proceed with (or deny) the sale.

If such a delay happens with a new or renewal CHL, what sheriff would voluntarily choose to proceed? They would ask their county prosecutor for advice and, IMHO, would be advised to deny 100% of the time.

It may require a lawsuit by someone, with a VAF and UPIN, being denied based on a delay to raise the issue. If nobody else has an issue before then, I'll let you know how it goes when I renew in 2017. :P
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Re: NICS

Post by JediSkipdogg »

MWSY....I was trying to see if they can refuse to issue because of not receiving a response and I don't think they can. Everywhere says the sheriff shall issue based on me doing my part. Nothing says they can refuse to issue because they have not completed their part. If LEADS goes down for two months, well, they still have to issue within 45 days. Once they become aware of a disqualifying offense after the issuance, then they can go back and suspend it. So, they must proceed if they do not receive a deny. I may be missing something, but I scanned through a bunch a little bit ago and couldn't find a legitimate reason for them to deny when we are a shall issue state.
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JustaShooter
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Re: NICS

Post by JustaShooter »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:... it's not like you never get a response to a Delay, as I understand it, it *will* come back with a Proceed or Deny at some point...
You may want to check with some of the FFL's. Never getting a response is why they have the 72-hour limit. If an FFL hasn't got a response after 72 hours, they may choose to proceed with (or deny) the sale.
Both of the FFL's I know well enough to ask this have both said they have never had a delay that failed to respond eventually. In the early days it might have been otherwise but they both agreed that delays are less prevalent than ever, and they couldn't recall a single instance where they never received a response. If you know of instances that have never returned a decision that would change my understanding of how it works.
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If such a delay happens with a new or renewal CHL, what sheriff would voluntarily choose to proceed? They would ask their county prosecutor for advice and, IMHO, would be advised to deny 100% of the time.
I would think otherwise - the way the law reads to me, absent a reason to deny, they must issue. Especially knowing that a dealer is allowed to proceed with a firearm sale after 3 days with no response to a delay I can't see how they would conclude a delay meant the applicant wasn't able to purchase a firearm under federal law which is the stated intent of the new NICS check.

Time will tell of course.
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Re: NICS

Post by screwman »

JediSkipdogg wrote:Well, since I'm not aware of any counties that issue right then and there, you wait anyways. Some may issue same day, but unless you want to sit in the lobby all day, you won't notice a difference.
Ottawa County was a 10 min wait.
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Re: NICS

Post by pirateguy191 »

Lake County is generally 30 minutes or less.
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Re: NICS

Post by diamondsun »

Champaign county was 10 minutes on my renewal.
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Re: NICS

Post by sodbuster95 »

JediSkipdogg wrote:MWSY....I was trying to see if they can refuse to issue because of not receiving a response and I don't think they can. Everywhere says the sheriff shall issue based on me doing my part. Nothing says they can refuse to issue because they have not completed their part. If LEADS goes down for two months, well, they still have to issue within 45 days. Once they become aware of a disqualifying offense after the issuance, then they can go back and suspend it. So, they must proceed if they do not receive a deny. I may be missing something, but I scanned through a bunch a little bit ago and couldn't find a legitimate reason for them to deny when we are a shall issue state.
Jedi, I agree with you in principal as I also don't see the authority in the law for a Sheriff to deny based on a lack of response from NICS.

Having said that (and maybe I'm just becoming jaded), I've had multiple experiences with several law enforcement agencies and other government officials who seem to feel that they have some "moral" authority to proceed in a fashion contrary to the black-and-white law when it comes to firearms. Case in point, Toledo Police Department setting up a "gun-free" zone around the government center when the KKK rally occurred notwithstanding a court's denial of their motion for a restraining order. Likewise, Lucas County Sheriff retaining confiscated firearms even after a lack of charges or an acquittal. I spoke with a new client very recently who is now facing some significant legal issues because of the improper reaction of law enforcement to his lawful possession and carry of a firearm (I unfortunately cannot provide details of that one). Working within law enforcement, you've no doubt seen the somewhat visceral reaction some law enforcement and government officials have to the idea of lawfully armed citizens. Even those that recognize the lawful nature of the act seem to have difficulty overcoming the perception that cops should be the only ones with guns. Not all, of course, but some. And I don't mean that "cop bash" - the reaction is understandable given that the vast majority of encounters between law enforcement and armed citizens are, by nature, negative.

I don't doubt that some agencies would proceed to issuance if the NICS system failed to respond, but I would be somewhat surprised if there weren't also some that denied on the grounds of this perceived "moral" authority.
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Re: NICS

Post by mreising »

Also, to add to the discussion about what happens after 45 days, most of us who have been around the forum since the early days are well aware of sheriffs that did not issue until some time after the 45 day limit because they had not received background check info. The black and white letter of the law is not always followed when it doesn't fit their agenda. I can see a no response NICS delay as fitting into that same category.
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