Application question - lived in Ohio for 5 years?

If you have questions or know the answers to questions about the application and renewal process this forum is for you. Post your experiences or ask your new applicant questions here.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

User avatar
color of law
*** Banned ***
Posts: 3623
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: Cincinnati area

Post by color of law »

willbird,

I don't disagree with you. The intent of the law may be 5 consecutive years before applying. But, the intent is not the law. Both the law and the application say have you lived in Ohio for 5 years. There are thousands of cases (case law) including the US SC that say the intent of the law is irrelevant unless the law is ambiguous. The law is not ambiguous.
spanishropes
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:28 pm

Post by spanishropes »

http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention ... cw_faq.pdf

From the Ohio Attorney General CHL FAQ page...(see above)

Q: When is an FBI check required?

A: If you have not lived in Ohio for the previous 5 years.


If the AG office interprets "5 years" to be consecutive, since Sheriff's refer to the AG office for such questions, most if not all Sheriff's Offices will defer to the information as presented above
User avatar
ohporter
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Wadsworth Township

Post by ohporter »

spanishropes wrote:http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention ... cw_faq.pdf

From the Ohio Attorney General CHL FAQ page...(see above)

Q: When is an FBI check required?

A: If you have not lived in Ohio for the previous 5 years.


If the AG office interprets "5 years" to be consecutive, since Sheriff's refer to the AG office for such questions, most if not all Sheriff's Offices will defer to the information as presented above
That is what I found today in practice at the Wayne County SO. I was told that they must charge the extra $24 due to the FBI check in accordance with the AG opinion.

However, the Deputy also agreed that my answer of "Yes, I've lived in Ohio for 5 years" is the correct answer. He did express his displeasure that the legislators failed to listen to the Sheriff's offices when cleaning up the CCW provisions this time. He mentioned that they've told them about this particular wording in the past as well as "typo" that allows felons to get a CCW.
User avatar
color of law
*** Banned ***
Posts: 3623
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: Cincinnati area

Post by color of law »

spanishropes wrote:http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention ... cw_faq.pdf

From the Ohio Attorney General CHL FAQ page...(see above)

Q: When is an FBI check required?

A: If you have not lived in Ohio for the previous 5 years.


If the AG office interprets "5 years" to be consecutive, since Sheriff's refer to the AG office for such questions, most if not all Sheriff's Offices will defer to the information as presented above
So if the sheriff relies on the Handbook as legal advice, then it would be obvious the sheriff did not read the following Disclaimer. Has the AG published an opinion as to this matter? I bet not.

Disclaimer
This information is intended to assist the public in understanding the laws of the State of Ohio, but is not a formal or informal opinion of Attorney General Dann, and is not a substitute for the advice of a lawyer or for common sense. If you are in need of legal advice on the subjects addressed herein, you should consult a private attorney of your choosing for specific information. The Ohio Attorney General cannot provide legal advice to anyone other than state agencies and officers. If you have informational questions, please contact our office by calling 1-877-AG4OHIO (1-877-244-6446), visiting Attorney General Dann’s website at www.ag.state.oh.us, or by writing Attorney General Dann at 30 E. Broad St, 17th Fl., Columbus, OH 43215. The Attorney General’s office will make every effort to answer your questions.
User avatar
cashman966
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 3436
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:52 pm
Location: Delaware, Ohio

Post by cashman966 »

color of law wrote:willbird,

I don't disagree with you. The intent of the law may be 5 consecutive years before applying. But, the intent is not the law. Both the law and the application say have you lived in Ohio for 5 years. There are thousands of cases (case law) including the US SC that say the intent of the law is irrelevant unless the law is ambiguous. The law is not ambiguous.

So since I have lived in Ohio for 32 years I guess I should have answered No. After all, the law and application don't ask if you have live in Ohio for 5 or more years. :?

OMG I'm a felon :shock:
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
User avatar
ohporter
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Wadsworth Township

Post by ohporter »

cashman966 wrote: So since I have lived in Ohio for 32 years I guess I should have answered No. After all, the law and application don't ask if you have live in Ohio for 5 or more years. :?

OMG I'm a felon :shock:
It's so easy to be a criminal these days...don't feel bad. :wink:
User avatar
color of law
*** Banned ***
Posts: 3623
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: Cincinnati area

Post by color of law »

If you asked me the following questions, all the answers would be correct.

Have you lived in Ohio for 5 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 20 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 58 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 60 years? no

Please take a refresher course in english.

So, let me ask you this.

Some months have 30 day and some months have 31 days. How many months have 28 days?
User avatar
Jim-in-Toledo
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:14 am
Location: If you can't figure it out, I'm not telling.

Post by Jim-in-Toledo »

color of law wrote:---snip---
So, let me ask you this.

Some months have 30 day and some months have 31 days. How many months have 28 days?
Okay, I'll bite:

All of em? :twisted:
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
Robert Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
I am the expert on my opinion.
And no one else's.
User avatar
cashman966
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 3436
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:52 pm
Location: Delaware, Ohio

Post by cashman966 »

color of law wrote:If you asked me the following questions, all the answers would be correct.

Have you lived in Ohio for 5 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 20 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 58 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 60 years? no

Please take a refresher course in english.

So, let me ask you this.

Some months have 30 day and some months have 31 days. How many months have 28 days?
But you are insisting in a strict literal reading of the words, not one where the intent or context is taken into account. The question asks have you lived in Ohio for 5 years, not more, not less. Under a strict reading I would have to answer no, any other answer would require me to infer the intent of the question to mean "at least 5 years" and as you have stated
color of law wrote:the intent is not the law
By the question asking "5 years" a strict reading would require that a yes would mean exactly that 5 years no more no less.


Also, according to your reading, someone would not even need to be a current resident of the state to begin with because of the wording in this requirement.
(a) The applicant is legally living in the United States, has been a resident of this state for at least forty-five days, and has been a resident of the county in which the person seeks the license or a county adjacent to the county in which the person seeks the license for at least thirty days.
Notice that it doesn't state that the 45 days or 30 days required need to be current.

If someone not currently living in Ohio had at anytime lived in the state and county for the above stated time frames they should be able to meet the resident standard.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
Buckshot
Posts: 3504
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:52 pm
Location: Lima, Ohio

Post by Buckshot »

color of law wrote:
spanishropes wrote:http://www.ag.state.oh.us/le/prevention ... cw_faq.pdf

From the Ohio Attorney General CHL FAQ page...(see above)

Q: When is an FBI check required?

A: If you have not lived in Ohio for the previous 5 years.


If the AG office interprets "5 years" to be consecutive, since Sheriff's refer to the AG office for such questions, most if not all Sheriff's Offices will defer to the information as presented above
So if the sheriff relies on the Handbook as legal advice, then it would be obvious the sheriff did not read the following Disclaimer. Has the AG published an opinion as to this matter? I bet not.

Disclaimer
This information is intended to assist the public in understanding the laws of the State of Ohio, but is not a formal or informal opinion of Attorney General Dann, and is not a substitute for the advice of a lawyer or for common sense. If you are in need of legal advice on the subjects addressed herein, you should consult a private attorney of your choosing for specific information. The Ohio Attorney General cannot provide legal advice to anyone other than state agencies and officers. If you have informational questions, please contact our office by calling 1-877-AG4OHIO (1-877-244-6446), visiting Attorney General Dann’s website at www.ag.state.oh.us, or by writing Attorney General Dann at 30 E. Broad St, 17th Fl., Columbus, OH 43215. The Attorney General’s office will make every effort to answer your questions.
Color of Law,

He has someone else, with as much or more power than the Attorney General that will issue legal opinions for him, the County Prosecutor.

That's all it really takes.

Buckshot
willbird
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 11446
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 am
Location: Exit 13 on the ohio Turnpike :-)

Post by willbird »

cashman966 wrote:
color of law wrote:If you asked me the following questions, all the answers would be correct.

Have you lived in Ohio for 5 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 20 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 58 years? yes
Have you lived in Ohio for 60 years? no

Please take a refresher course in english.

So, let me ask you this.

Some months have 30 day and some months have 31 days. How many months have 28 days?
But you are insisting in a strict literal reading of the words, not one where the intent or context is taken into account. The question asks have you lived in Ohio for 5 years, not more, not less. Under a strict reading I would have to answer no, any other answer would require me to infer the intent of the question to mean "at least 5 years" and as you have stated
color of law wrote:the intent is not the law
By the question asking "5 years" a strict reading would require that a yes would mean exactly that 5 years no more no less.


Also, according to your reading, someone would not even need to be a current resident of the state to begin with because of the wording in this requirement.
(a) The applicant is legally living in the United States, has been a resident of this state for at least forty-five days, and has been a resident of the county in which the person seeks the license or a county adjacent to the county in which the person seeks the license for at least thirty days.
Notice that it doesn't state that the 45 days or 30 days required need to be current.

If someone not currently living in Ohio had at anytime lived in the state and county for the above stated time frames they should be able to meet the resident standard.

I agree, if your in "color of law English class" then you could get an Ohio Resident CHL even if you are a resident of Michigan who at one time lived in Ohio for 5 years(or more), and if you have lived in every county for 30 days or more you may get a license in ANY county :-)

Bill
Have a great day today unless you have made other plans :-).
User avatar
color of law
*** Banned ***
Posts: 3623
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: Cincinnati area

Post by color of law »

willbird wrote:I agree, if your in "color of law English class" then you could get an Ohio Resident CHL even if you are a resident of Michigan who at one time lived in Ohio for 5 years(or more), and if you have lived in every county for 30 days or more you may get a license in ANY county :-)

Bill
No, not all 88 counties. Your county and adjoining counties. If you lived in Knox county, then you can apply in one of the 7 adjoining counties.

I did not write the law. A maxim of law is if it can be interpreted different ways then the law is void for vagueness. This applies to to at least half the laws in Ohio, IMO.

Lets screw this thing up more. Under Ohio law, to be considered a resident you have to live in Ohio 180 days in the year. And under the law you don't have to live in the state to be a resident.
Magoo
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:37 pm
Location: NW, Ohio

INTENT IS GOOD & BAD. LAWS SHOULD BE SPELLED OUT>

Post by Magoo »

That's the problem with Law(s) in general.
Intent can leave anything open to varying interpretations from all the County Sherrifs & Prosecutors.
That's what got Tim arrested in Lucas CO. with his SBR including over 30 rnd. mag. installed, but it was also what got his case dismissed because it was not Clearly written the way they wanted it. So - Intent can work both ways (Good & Bad).
R.C. 2923.125(B)(1) sets the minimum fee at $55.
For Residency Requirements, you must be a legal resident of the United States and an Ohio resident
for 45 days before you apply for your license. You must be a resident of
the county (or adjoining county) where you apply for at least 30 days.
You must also be at least 21 years of age and not a fugitive from justice.

When is an FBI check required? If you have not lived in Ohio for the previous 5 years. This is where the "Intent" could come in to play because it states "for the Previous 5 years". It does not say continuously. I think the Law needs to be more clearly written also, as it would take out a lot of doubt and relieve many questions. :D
If they Come-Surrender All Ammo Bullets First!
FFL/SOT
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
NRA Range Safety Officer
NRA Life Member
U.S. Army Veteran
willbird
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 11446
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:19 am
Location: Exit 13 on the ohio Turnpike :-)

Post by willbird »

color of law wrote:
willbird wrote:I agree, if your in "color of law English class" then you could get an Ohio Resident CHL even if you are a resident of Michigan who at one time lived in Ohio for 5 years(or more), and if you have lived in every county for 30 days or more you may get a license in ANY county :-)

Bill
No, not all 88 counties. Your county and adjoining counties. If you lived in Knox county, then you can apply in one of the 7 adjoining counties.

I did not write the law. A maxim of law is if it can be interpreted different ways then the law is void for vagueness. This applies to to at least half the laws in Ohio, IMO.

Lets screw this thing up more. Under Ohio law, to be considered a resident you have to live in Ohio 180 days in the year. And under the law you don't have to live in the state to be a resident.

(a) The applicant is legally living in the United States, has been a resident of this state for at least forty-five days, and has been a resident of the county in which the person seeks the license or a county adjacent to the county in which the person seeks the license for at least thirty days.
If I read the above like you did the bit about "5 years" there is NOTHING that says the applicant must CURRENTLY be a resident of the county he is applying in, just that he has been to be a resident for 30 or more days sometime in his life.........and to twist it further he/she does not have to be an Ohio resident, but rather must have resided in Ohio for a 45 day or longer period at some time in his/her life.

Bill
Have a great day today unless you have made other plans :-).
User avatar
color of law
*** Banned ***
Posts: 3623
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 10:03 pm
Location: Cincinnati area

Post by color of law »

So, we are left with however the sheriff in his county is going to apply the law. For $25 or $30 more and a little longer wait is not worth suing over.
Post Reply