sealed or expunged records

If you have questions or know the answers to questions about the application and renewal process this forum is for you. Post your experiences or ask your new applicant questions here.

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jabeatty
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Post by jabeatty »

OhioMike wrote:I guess you know because you went through all this wheras I did :roll:
Mike, you're correct - I haven't been convicted of a felony (the old Blues Brothers line runs through my head as I type that... "Convicted? No... never convicted!").

I don't know this based on personal experience. I could be wrong.

Whatever you've done, expungement-wise or sealing-wise, seems to be working for you.

Enjoy!

No, nobody "spanked" me.

No, nobody is welcome to try either. :)
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wheeler2823
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Post by wheeler2823 »

SeanC wrote:It always seems to me like people want to discuss sealed/exponged records in conjunction with restoration of firearms rights, but they're totally separate issues.

For ANY drug offenses, you will become subject to an OHIO disqualifier. For ANY felony conviction, you will be subject to an OHIO and FEDERAL disqualifier. Even if you get your records sealed, you will still have a firearms disability following you around. To get the disability removed, you need to petition the courts.

One good reason to be thankful you live in Ohio is that U.S. v. Cassidy is still good law in our jurisdiction. That case, from the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, holds that:
Congress intended that courts refer to state law to determine whether an individual should be subject to federal firearms disabilities by virtue of a criminal conviction. If state law has restored civil rights to a felon, without expressly limiting the felon's firearms privileges, that felon is not subject to federal firearms disabilities. This is the clear and unambiguous intent of Congress as expressed in section 921(a)(20).
Under Cassidy, the federal disqualifier is removed when the felon's civil rights are restored (even if the right to keep and bear arms is not specifically mentioned, so long as it is not specifically excluded). That's no the case in the other forty-six states... just in our particular circuit.

In Ohio, civil rights other than second amendment rights are restored upon the felon's release from the criminal justice system. To get firearms rights restored, you need to petition the court. Cassidy is pretty clear that once the STATE determines that the felon is no longer prohibited from possessing a firearm, the federal government will accept that determination.
Great post. My problem is with US v Caron 1998 (That is what NICS cites when they denied me). If you examine ORC 2923.14 you will see that my relief does not apply to "dangerous ordinance" which is defined as short barrelled rifles, shotguns, machine guns, etc. NICS translates this to mean that my firearm rights ARE expressly limited, so they deny me everytime.
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OhioMike
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Post by OhioMike »

As I have stated in a prior post. I petitioned the court two times

First time to get my records "Sealed"
Second time to obtain "Relief Of disability"

I have all the court documents to prove so. To obtain the Relief the court
does an exhaustive background check. It is up the sitting Judges' disgretion
if he grants you the Reliefe or not. He can look at your detailed records
and deny if he sees ANYTHING he does not like. He also asked me many
questions as to why I wanted Refief, What I did for work, Etc...

I also asked the Judge to add this statement on my relief document:
The court further finds that Michael ********* should have his full and complete firearms rights restored"

For those who do not know it is NOT EASY to be granted Sealed Records
or Relief Of Disability

My records are fully and completly restored on the State and Federal level
now. As soon as the Castle Doctorine is in effect I will be able to obtain
my Ohio License and that will cover the last of my Hurdles

I have had a Florida and a Virginia "Non-Resident" license for years and I
can now get my Ohio license

I am amazed once again at the people who make posts here about
things that they know nothing about. I have no problem with questions it
is just the post from people who Are "Positive" of things that they know nothing about
Last edited by OhioMike on Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
SMMAssociates
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Ohio Mike wrote:I am amazed once again at the people who make posts here about
things that they know nothing about.
Mike:

I think it's because the current CHL law has a "what is 'is'?" in it - the Sheriff pretty much MUST open those sealed records when doing the background check. True expungement seems to have vanished some years ago, so those records are available to LE if anybody cares to look.

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's either belt & suspenders by the folks who wrote the CHL law, or an accidental side-effect. (We could blame "poison pill", too, but....) Apparently, if I remember right, it has to say that the Sheriff can't look at those, before the seal is valid for this purpose.

Those of us who have followed your situation since you first dropped in here probably understand the issue better....

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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OhioMike
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Post by OhioMike »

Yup... you are exactly right

Current Ohio law states that a Sherriff MUST open records
when considering license issuance and MUST deny if there
are a number of different offenses including a Felony

This will now change when the Castle Doctorine goes into effect
and people in my situation who have both Sealed Records and Relief
will have no more problems with any gun related laws

And thanks again to OFCC and Atty. Don Gallick for all their help
because with out OFCC I would not be this far
My favorite pistol for ccw, Ruger LC9S
jabeatty
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Post by jabeatty »

OhioMike wrote:I am amazed once again at the people who make posts here about things that they know nothing about. I have no problem with questions it is just the post from people who Are "Positive" of things that they know nothing about
Trust me, Mike - had I bothered to read through the stuff you posted when you first joined, I'd have never replied to your comments. Now that I have, you won't hear from me again.
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OhioMike
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Post by OhioMike »

It is not exactly you jabeatty, It just seems when I have exact facts from
actual experience people seem to "Know Better" even thougyh they have never
had any dealings with the legal system in regards to this issue. It is very
annoying to have so many know it alls on a given issue who have "Exact Answers"
and yet they have no experience with a given issue
My favorite pistol for ccw, Ruger LC9S
JimMullinsWVCDL
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Federal law

Post by JimMullinsWVCDL »

Under federal law, disqualification from being able to legally possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms on the basis of a felony conviction is technically based upon a conviction for a "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year." The below definition is relevant to both this discussion and a discussion another thread about fifth degree felonies under Ohio law.

18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(20):
The term "crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year" does not include--

(A) any Federal or State offenses pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, restraints of trade, or other similar offenses relating to the regulation of business practices, or

(B) any State offense classified by the laws of the State as a misdemeanor and punishable by a term of imprisonment of two years or less.

What constitutes a conviction of such a crime shall be determined in accordance with the law of the jurisdiction in which the proceedings were held. Any conviction which has been expunged, or set aside or for which a person has been pardoned or has had civil rights restored shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such pardon, expungement, or restoration of civil rights expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.
Link to the rest of the Gun Control Act of 1968, as amended.
James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
Attorney, The Law Offices of James M. Mullins, Jr., PLLC
Founder, Past President, Legislative Director, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
Life Member, NRA
verbaltharhino
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Post by verbaltharhino »

God, am I lucky. I had a drug posession ticket (4th degree misdemeanor) from over 15 years ago. I had it sealed (even though the court referred to it as expunged) in 2004. I've never had a problem purchasing firearms (even before the records were sealed) and I received my CCW permit in October of 2004. Back then, I was told by the Sheriff's dept that if it was expunged, they couldn't see it so I would be fine to apply.

I've been sweating the renewal, but with the Castle Doctrine, I'll be fine. Thank goodness!

Amazing how a Democrat is willing to approve radical (albeit sensible) changes to our CCW law and Bob Shaft had to be basically forced into signing the original legislation.
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SeanC
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Post by SeanC »

I had a drug posession ticket (4th degree misdemeanor) from over 15 years ago. I had it sealed (even though the court referred to it as expunged) in 2004. I've never had a problem purchasing firearms (even before the records were sealed) and I received my CCW permit in October of 2004.
Technically, you're still under a state firearms disability... Maybe you managed to slide through the system undetected.
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SMMAssociates
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Sean:

I wonder if that M4 slipped through as something else? Judges and such sometimes can get kinda creative....

When the mud monster got her final Juvenile traffic cite, she was in danger of losing her license (third one!) but due to the vagaries of the system around here, and her being over 18 by the time it got to court, the Judge asked her to plead guilty to "operating an unsafe vehicle".... Same fine, and the Insurance Company probably was notified, but no hazard to her license. (That would have cost me about $700, if I have it right.)

Disregarding that, I think the Sheriff could choose to not look at those sealed records - I forget whether the law said "must" or "can" - and may have been willing to stick his neck out a little.

(Is that State disability also able to "see" those sealed records?)

Just ruminating....

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Mr.White
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Post by Mr.White »

OhioMike wrote:That is not true

Even with a felony conviction you can legally purchase a firearm

As long as you go through the court process of getting your record SEALED
you can legally purchase a firearm. You do NOT have to answer YES on the form
and you WILL pass the NICS check legally
ya my felony is sealed...I pass NICS everytime...never had a problem



but my next question is...since I was a MINOR when i got the felony, do they look at juvenile records for CHL???
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SeanC
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Post by SeanC »

You know what I think it is? There was very, very little technology and automation 15 years ago (and even today, in some courts). Most jurisdictions are still catching up. Either your jurisdiction hasn't gotten around to putting in old records yet or someone screwed up and missed it/coded it wrong.

In any case, hopefully it won't turn up. But... if it was me, I'd look into getting that record sealed and having my firearms rights restored. You never know if today is the day they find and fix the mistake.
I am a lawyer; I am not your lawyer.
verbaltharhino
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Post by verbaltharhino »

It's sealed already. Sounds like I still should get the "disability" removed, though? I thought having the records sealed took care of everything, but according to what I see here, it doesn't.
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SeanC
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Post by SeanC »

You're right, they're separate issues. I would have the disability removed just to be 100% legal.

It's not a huge deal, either. You'll just need to file some paperwork with the court describing the conviction and explaining why you want the disability removed. There's supposed to be a hearing, too, where you reiterate your point to the judge.

You can probably find a lawyer who will do it for you for a small fee. Depending on where you live and how hard the judges are about granting restorations of rights, you might also be able to do it yourself.
I am a lawyer; I am not your lawyer.
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