amending a protection order to allow for CCW?possible?

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Hazard
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amending a protection order to allow for CCW?possible?

Post by Hazard »

just like what the title says. i know normally when under a protection order you are not even allowed to possess a firearm, but i also know that stipulation can be removed.

Now does anyone have enough knowledge on the subject to know if you can negotiate still being able to CCW wit an order?
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Re: amending a protection order to allow for CCW?possible?

Post by jgarvas »

Hazard wrote:just like what the title says. i know normally when under a protection order you are not even allowed to possess a firearm, but i also know that stipulation can be removed.

Now does anyone have enough knowledge on the subject to know if you can negotiate still being able to CCW wit an order?
You'd probably have to hire an attorney and have a judge modify the scope of the order, assuming they have latitude and its not mandated by statute. I know if you file for divorce and there is a protection order you're immediately suspended. I'm not sure if that is consistent statewide but I believe it may be.
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Post by jabeatty »

The federal prohibition is pretty specific; I'm not sure about the state version (if one exists):
(8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that—

(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and

(B) (i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or

(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury;
ETA: There's a lot less leeway in the Ohio statute:
2923.128 Suspension and revocation of license.

(A)(1)(a) If a licensee holding a valid license issued under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code is arrested for or otherwise charged with an offense described in division (D)(1)(d) of section 2923.125 of the Revised Code or with a violation of section 2923.15 of the Revised Code or becomes subject to a temporary protection order or to a protection order issued by a court of another state that is substantially equivalent to a temporary protection order, the sheriff who issued the license or temporary emergency license shall suspend it and shall comply with division (A)(3) of this section upon becoming aware of the arrest, charge, or protection order. Upon suspending the license or temporary emergency license, the sheriff also shall comply with division (H) of section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.
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SeanC
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Post by SeanC »

This isn't really my area of expertise, but I have a friend from law school whose job is to represent indigent petitioners for civil protection orders on behalf of the school's legal clinic.

There are different orders for which a victim can apply. The second (state) statute concerns itself with the emergency orders. These are issued just to protect a victim until a hearing can be held. They're of a very limited duration. Because this would be ordered in the licensee's absence, there's probably no way to get the judge to let you keep your guns or your CCW. Fortunately, you can request that change in the permanent order.

The first (federal) statute deals with the permanent orders. When the hearing comes up, the respondent will have a chance to be heard. My buddy tells me that from time to time at these hearings, the individual will specifically ask to keep their guns, as one of the usual terms in the order is for all weapons to be removed. If the situation is right (i.e. it seems to be a case where there won't be any more threats or violence if the parties aren't living together), he will sometimes offer to allow the respondent to keep his guns if the respondent agrees not to contest the CPO.

So, you might be able to avoid the federal weapons disability by negotiating with a CPO petitioner. If the court will agree not to impose a weapons disability you're good to go. If the court finds you to be a credible threat, it probably wouldn't grant an exception from disability.

In short, then - there's no way around the temporary CPO disability, but it would be very brief. At the hearing you might avoid federal disability by either showing a good reason why you should keep your weapons or by persuading the petitioner to allow you to keep them.
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Hazard
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Post by Hazard »

yuck... doesnt look good. thanks guys.

The order is pretty much down to the point where we can attend the same social events but have to stay 15 ft away from each other or so

the normal firearms restrictions are getting removed and stuff. hmm

open carry eh?

edit: just saw your post sean... doesnt the wording of the ohio law seem to indicate any sort of CPO = no CCW?

I know the stipulation of no weapons period is going to get waived in court (their attorney seems to have no problem), but CCW is a whole nother ballgame from what it seems that the statute seems to not care what the petitioner says in the matter even.

ick.
this whole CPO system just seems a little messed up, i mean i understand the intent of it and it was probably designed with good intentions, but it seems like it can be abused way too easily to mess up someones life.

I deliver part time on the side, so this is extra bad.
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Post by Hazard »

Well, the judge wouldnt even grant firearm access. Not even for hunting weapons such as shotguns or .22 plinker, because "large hunting weapons are used in murders all the time"

so it's time to find an attorney who will help with the appeal to modify the terms of this order..

There has been no violence, threat of violence or even thoughts of violence in this case, it's mutual and pretty much useless. i obviously do not have a violent record. (or any record outside of traffic court for that matter)

I wanted to make a statement to the judge along the lines of "if i was intending to use a firearm for an illegal act, would i really care if the weapon used was legal or not?"
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Post by jeffkirchner »

Hazard wrote:...I wanted to make a statement to the judge along the lines of "if i was intending to use a firearm for an illegal act, would i really care if the weapon used was legal or not?"
You wanted to; But did you? His decision might have been based solely on politics. Sometimes that happens when politicians are involved.
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Hazard
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Post by Hazard »

No, this was in toledo... My idea was that it was probably better to accept the ruling while not arguing with the judge, and attempt to appeal in a month or so after i obtain a very pro-2a attorney, and hopefully we'll go in front of a judge who sees things a little more logically.

I didnt feel like spending 1k+ on an attorney as most of my conditions were met fully, and i was supposed to be able to retain firearm rights.

That said, does anyone know someone i could talk to in the toledo area? I know a guy that does public defender work in perrysburg that is very pro-2a, and my ex-gf's father was a prosecutor up there at one point so i should be able to get in contact with him relatively easily. hmm
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Post by cashman966 »

Hazard wrote:There has been no violence, threat of violence or even thoughts of violence in this case, it's mutual and pretty much useless. i obviously do not have a violent record. (or any record outside of traffic court for that matter)
I am not trying to be argumentative but if this is true what was the basis of the CPO to begin with? Doesn't the petitioner have to testify to an act or threat of violence committed or the danger of future violence to get the order to begin with?

For what its worth I think that you made a wise choice in not speaking your mind here
I wanted to make a statement to the judge along the lines of "if i was intending to use a firearm for an illegal act, would i really care if the weapon used was legal or not?"
I don't think the Judge would have appreciated the comment and it most likely would have made things much worse for you.
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Hazard
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Post by Hazard »

Yes sir, i know better than to argue with any judge no matter how unfair something may seem. You can always appeal the ruling.
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