Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby TJW815 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:05 pm

I noticed while sitting next to a BCRTA bus today that they had a standard in buster sign posted to the left of the entry doors. The license plates were county tags so I'm assuming they are government sponsored. This was a brand new bus with brand new vinyl body wrap so they cannot say it's an old sign.

I sent a email via their website inquiring about whether they allow guns to be carried on the bus. More of a feeler than anything.

I'll keep this thread updated.

I may need assistance with what to do next. Getting my city to amend its laws regarding park carry was pretty fun so I'm looking forward to this.
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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby TJW815 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:50 pm

Received an automated reply stating that Stefanie Lawson, Manager of Administration would be it of office 9/21 - 12/5.

There was a forwarding address to a Tiffany Walton who I forwarded the email too.
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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby scottb » Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:54 pm

Wow! Two months off!
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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby JediSkipdogg » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:34 pm

TJW815 wrote:Received an automated reply stating that Stefanie Lawson, Manager of Administration would be it of office 9/21 - 12/5.

There was a forwarding address to a Tiffany Walton who I forwarded the email too.


Kind of like a recent email I had from someone at Warren County. Looking to get a copy of an indictment on someone and emailed the address on their website. The person replies back they will be out the remainder of the year and I should look up the phone number and contact their criminal section. Ummm, how about you forward my email or change what is posted on the website. Freaking lazy government workers I tell ya.
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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby Brian D. » Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:45 pm

TJW815 wrote:Received an automated reply stating that Stefanie Lawson, Manager of Administration would be it of office 9/21 - 12/5.

There was a forwarding address to a Tiffany Walton who I forwarded the email too.


Maternity leave maybe?
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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby TJW815 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:19 am

Brian D. wrote:
TJW815 wrote:Received an automated reply stating that Stefanie Lawson, Manager of Administration would be it of office 9/21 - 12/5.

There was a forwarding address to a Tiffany Walton who I forwarded the email too.


Maternity leave maybe?


Was my assumption as well.
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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby BB62 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:28 pm

Following this...
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby BB62 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:35 pm

TJW815 wrote:I noticed while sitting next to a BCRTA bus today that they had a standard in buster sign posted to the left of the entry doors. The license plates were county tags so I'm assuming they are government sponsored. This was a brand new bus with brand new vinyl body wrap so they cannot say it's an old sign.

I sent a email via their website inquiring about whether they allow guns to be carried on the bus. More of a feeler than anything.

I'll keep this thread updated.

I may need assistance with what to do next. Getting my city to amend its laws regarding park carry was pretty fun so I'm looking forward to this.

Thanks for the heads-up on this.

As part of my Dayton RTA project, I queried BCRTA about their gun policies:

RECORDS REQUEST


*** Please forward this request to your legal department or outside legal counsel ***


Pursuant to Ohio’s Sunshine Law, please send me the following via e-mail, pdf format preferred:

1) A copy of BCRTA’s policy regarding the carry of firearms by passengers

2) A copy of the signage used to inform passengers of BCRTA’s firearm policy

3) A copy of the materials used to inform employees of BCRTA’s passenger firearm policy


Please call if you have questions. Thank you.

me
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby BB62 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:37 pm

I received this in reply, from BCRTA's Director of Demand Operations:

The Butler County Regional Transit Authority does not have a policy addressing passengers who might carry firearms onto a bus or any vehicle we use in service. Our legal counsel has forwarded the image of a notice that is on our vehicles, if you did not receive this, please notify us at your earliest convenience and we will ensure that it is shared. Once again, we are glad to help you with anything further, please feel free to reach out to us.
Last edited by BB62 on Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby BB62 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:38 pm

I sent this to BCRTA's attorney (twice, because I didn't hear back from the first sending of it):

Thank you very much for the sign image. Thank you also for our phone conversation and your informal response (below) to my December, 2016 records request regarding BCRTA & passenger firearm carry – since BCRTA hadn’t even acknowledged receiving my request, nor even bothered to respond to my phone calls.

The BCRTA website lacks e-mail or phone contact information for individuals, so allow me to address my concerns to you unless and until someone from BCRTA management responds.

I think you and I both know that (for instance) none of the following acts are illegal under Ohio law:

- the open carry of a handgun on BCRTA property, or in BCRTA buildings in areas open to the public, by an individual who can legally possess a firearm
- the open or concealed carry of a handgun(s) by a passenger who possesses an Ohio License to Carry a Concealed Handgun (or its recognized equivalent) on BCRTA transit vehicles

However- I’m concerned that the attached sign image, a red circle and slash over a silhouette of a handgun, in the apparent absence of training materials to the contrary, indicates to those not conversant in the Ohio Revised Code that the above described acts are contrary to Ohio law.

For instance, using the signage as a point of reference, and since in my experience bus drivers tend not to be accomplished attorneys, I can easily see a driver reacting to the sight of an armed person attempting to board a bus, or to an armed passenger already on the bus, by either:

A) pointing to the sign and telling the prospective customer they cannot board or
B) summoning the police and stopping the bus in order to debark the passenger

However, BCRTA has no legal right to deny boarding or deny transit to a person who complies with Ohio law.

I would appreciate your/BCRTA’s response to my concerns, and thank you in advance.



Cordially,
me
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby BB62 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:39 pm

In reply, I received this from BCRTA's attorney:

Mr. Smith....thank you for sharing your observations. We have been discussing this issue with the BCRTA board, and I will share your concerns with them during our next meeting. Our board meetings are open to the public, and you are welcome to attend. Having said that, in our assessment the signage utilized by BCRTA to date does comply with Ohio law, and we are not aware of any individual having been denied access to a BCRTA transit vehicle due to their carrying a firearm. If you would care to discuss this issue, please do not hesitate to give me a call.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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** Bottom line **

Postby BB62 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:52 pm

To me, the bottom line is that BCRTA, knowingly or unknowingly, is being cute with their bus signage (below), and I expect that further activism is going to take place. :wink:

Image


Put "IMG" in [] brackets before this address and end with /IMG in brackets afterwards: http://i65.tinypic.com/358axro.jpg
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby TJW815 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:21 pm

Thanks for picking this up. In all honesty i simply forgot about it.

I never have received a reply from the email I sent.
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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby BB62 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:44 pm

TJW815 wrote:Thanks for picking this up. In all honesty i simply forgot about it.

I never have received a reply from the email I sent.

No problem.

It took multiple communications, eventually ending with their legal counsel, to get an answer.

If I organize an OC bus ride, I expect you to attend, however. :wink:


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Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Butler County RTA / Middletown Transit

Postby TJW815 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:26 pm

Lol, I'll be there.
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