OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Forum rules
This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:37 am

A friend of mine received the following letter regarding concealed carry at the Ohio Public Employees Retirement System offices and parking garage located at 277 East Town Street
Columbus, OH 43215:

Image

It looks to me like ORC 2923.126 (B) (9) covers the parking garage portion of this letter:

(B) .... A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:
(9) Any building that is a government facility of this state or a political subdivision of this state and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility ...


So ORC 9.68 should prevent them from enacting this rule - or am I missing something?
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 4435
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby Cruiser » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:03 am

Well they did you the favor of a contact name and number.
Abandon ye all HOPE!
User avatar
Cruiser
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
 
Posts: 10785
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 6:41 pm
Location: Mercer County, Ohio - what is yours?

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:36 pm

We have not addressed how 9.68 affects an employee policy for a public entity.

Students for Concealed Carry is targeting such policies of OSU with their once and future lawsuits.

If the public was able to park in the OPERS garage, I don't see anything in the policy that prevents storage of a firearm.
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:27 pm

Well, it is where visitors park as well, so...
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 4435
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby JediSkipdogg » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:40 pm

JustaShooter wrote:Well, it is where visitors park as well, so...


But it says they will gladly secure it for visitors while they are there.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
 
Posts: 10106
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby Brian D. » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:09 pm

JediSkipdogg wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:Well, it is where visitors park as well, so...


But it says they will gladly secure it for visitors while they are there.


That sounds like one or more negligent discharges waiting to happen.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14607
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby troy bilt » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:38 pm

So will the sheriff be standing outside of the posted building? Wouldn't that be the only legal way to transfer the "weapon"?
I have struggled with dyslexia my entire life. I know it's spelled wrong but thanks for pointing it out.
User avatar
troy bilt
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:53 pm
Location: Norwalk

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby WestonDon » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:50 pm

I really don't understand why OPERS finds it necessary to publish it's own rules specific to them instead of just following state law like any other state agency.
I believe in American exceptianalism
Fear the government that fears your guns
NRA endowment life member
WestonDon
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:30 pm
Location: Wood county

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby troy bilt » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:03 pm

WestonDon wrote:I really don't understand why OPERS finds it necessary to publish it's own rules specific to them instead of just following state law like any other state agency.


Someone at a desk had to show that there position was needed.
I have struggled with dyslexia my entire life. I know it's spelled wrong but thanks for pointing it out.
User avatar
troy bilt
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:53 pm
Location: Norwalk

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby SeanC » Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:18 am

I am of the opinion that regulations like this are lawful. The most similar cases involve government restriction of speech, particularly on-duty but also off-duty, by government employees. The cases say that the government-as-employer gets significantly more leeway in controlling the acts of its employees than does the government-as-sovereign. Courts have affirmed dismissal of government employees for all kinds of "speech" that is otherwise protected, including an employee's membership in a hate group (constitutionally protected "speech"). Even recently, a few Montgomery County Deputies were dismissed from service after their private, off-duty, allegedly racist text messages were made public. I think the analysis is probably the same here: the government can't prohibit a private citizen from carrying in the garage, but it can prohibit its employees from doing so, and it can dismiss employees who fail to comply with the policies.
I am a lawyer; I am not your lawyer.

http://www.green-law.com/attorneys/sean-m-culley/
User avatar
SeanC
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 2516
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:35 pm
Location: Springboro, Ohio

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:15 am

SeanC wrote:...The cases say that the government-as-employer gets significantly more leeway in controlling the acts of its employees than does the government-as-sovereign. ... I think the analysis is probably the same here: the government can't prohibit a private citizen from carrying in the garage, but it can prohibit its employees from doing so, and it can dismiss employees who fail to comply with the policies.


And this is why the OSU lawsuit is so important.

Even if those policies can be enforced against employees, how can they be enforced against students?

If you say it is because students 'enter into a contract', that would completely wipe out 'OFCC v. Clyde'.

If your fairgrounds or park charges admission, that entrance contract could restrict firearms.
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby pirateguy191 » Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:41 am

SeanC wrote:I am of the opinion that regulations like this are lawful.


You meant AWFUL?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
User avatar
pirateguy191
 
Posts: 10674
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:06 pm
Location: 44146

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby dsk » Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:21 pm

WestonDon wrote:I really don't understand why OPERS finds it necessary to publish it's own rules specific to them instead of just following state law like any other state agency.



Well, IIRC, OPERS is not technically a government entity. It was created by the General Assembly, but it isn't really a state agency. I think all the retirement plans are this weird mix of public and private governance. I would bet a competent court would find 9.68 applies, but it's no slam dunk.
Pay your dues.
User avatar
dsk
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 1407
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:06 am
Location: central ohio

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby docachna » Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:53 pm

Bloomberg says the OPERS retirement board is privately owned:

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=3534781

Wonder if the "system" itself is privately owned ? No such corporation, according to the Secretary of State.

Sounds like the Agricultural Boards all over again.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE
docachna
 
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:26 am
Location: Mount Juliet TN

Re: OPERS parking garage 9.68 violation?

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:50 pm

dsk wrote:Well, IIRC, OPERS is not technically a government entity. It was created by the General Assembly, but it isn't really a state agency...


If it's not an 'agency' then it's definitely an 'instrumentality'.

Unlike the 'instrumentality' that is OSU, OPERS actually has a section published in the OAC:


Ohio Revised Code » Title [1] I STATE GOVERNMENT » Chapter 145: PUBLIC EMPLOYEES RETIREMENT SYSTEM
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/145

Ohio Administrative Code » 145 Ohio Public Employees Retirement System » Chapter 145-1 Benefits
http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/145-1-01
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 5398
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Next

Return to ORC 9.68 Compliance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest