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Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:46 pm
by Birdman
The city I work in has this in its codified municipal code: (I deleted non-firearm related statements)
509.09 CIVIL EMERGENCY.
(a) Whenever, in his judgment, the City Manager determines that an emergency exists as a result of any natural disaster or man-made calamity, or clear and present danger thereof, or riot, insurrection, mob action or other civil disturbance causing danger of injury to or damages to persons or property, he shall have power to impose by proclamation any or all of the following regulations necessary to restore the peace and order of the City:
(6) Prohibit or restrict the sale, distribution, dispensing or giving away of any firearms or ammunition of any character whatsoever;
(7) Order the closing of any and all establishments or portions thereof engaged in the sale, distribution, dispensing or giving away of firearms and/or ammunition;
(8) Prohibit or restrict the carrying or possession on the public streets or public sidewalks or in any public place or square or any other public place, a weapon or any object intended to be used as a weapon, including but not limited to, firearms , bows and arrows, air rifles, slingshots, knives, razors, broken bottles, fire bombs, missiles of any kind, clubs, blackjacks, billies, chains or similar items.
(e) No person shall fail to obey the lawful order of any police officer, militiaman, fireman, member of the National Guard, or other authorized person acting under orders or authority issued under the provisions of this section.
This can't be legal under ORC 9.68.....right? HA! Notice "Militiaman" in last sentence!
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:59 pm
by Brian D.
Yeah those need cleaning up. Law director happen by any chance to be a licensed attorney? I hear they can be less than impossible to edumacate as to actual legal vs. illegal municipal code language.
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:35 pm
by wkdravenna
I would be ok, I am part of the Ohio Unorganized Millita as per the ORC.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5923" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am ready !
(D) The unorganized militia consists of those citizens of the state as described in division (A) of this section who are not members of the Ohio organized militia.
(A) The Ohio organized militia consist of all citizens of the state who are not permanently handicapped, as handicapped is defined in section 4112.01 of the Revised Code, who are more than seventeen years, and not more than sixty-seven years, of age unless exempted as provided in section 5923.02 of the Revised Code, and who are members of one of the following:
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:17 pm
by cashman966
Looks like the ORC provides some back up for the ordinance at least as far as riots go. Not so much for the other situations.
3761.16 Areas threatened by riot may be cordoned off.
The chief administrative officer of a political subdivision with police powers, when engaged in suppressing a riot or when there is a clear and present danger of a riot, may cordon off any area or areas threatened by the riot and prohibit persons from entering the cordoned off area or areas except when carrying on necessary and legitimate pursuits and may prohibit the sale, offering for sale, dispensing, or transportation of firearms or other dangerous weapons, ammunition, dynamite, or other dangerous explosives in, to, or from the cordoned off areas.
Guess he could cordon off the city.
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:38 pm
by djthomas
Cashman beat me to it with the exact ORC quote, but to me the operative phrase is "clear and present danger of a riot." A riot is simply four or more persons engaged in disorderly conduct. Any time there's a disaster of any real magnitude there's a fair chance of looters, hooligans and other ruffians descending on the area. Given the right circumstances I think the danger of a riot could be stretched to cover just about anything, and since it's an administrative judgment call the courts will probably be loathe to second guess that decision absent really compelling evidence to the contrary.
That said this statute doesn't seem to see much use that I'm aware of. Frankly I was very surprised that when the Nazi's came to Toledo the lawsuits to prevent weapons from being carried placed no reliance on this statute. They sought an injunction based on the general requirement to preserve the peace. IMHO it would have been a different ballgame if they had declared that area to be under a clear and present danger of riot and then used 3761.16 when someone contested their arrest for misconduct at an emergency.
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:55 pm
by Mr. Glock
I'd say your were a militiaman, Birdy.
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:19 am
by eye95
The courts probably would rule against cordoning off the entire city unless the chief administrative officer could show that the emergency was a riot and that the entire city was threatened by the riot.
Furthermore, since the ordinance cites a greater scope than just rioting and since it grants greater power to restrict than the law does, the ordinance is not merely a restatement of Ohio law, which would be have been OK under 9.68.
Does the city have to actually invoke the ordinance before anyone can gain standing to sue under 9.68?
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:47 pm
by Brian D.
"Hooligans" and "ruffians". Djthomas you sound like Tweed Ring!
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:48 pm
by M-Quigley
Did the city of New Orleans have a similar ordinance when they went door to door, confiscating guns? Or did they even care about the supposed legalities of it? What is someone going to do about it at that moment in time if the city does try to enforce the ordinance at some point in the future?
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:31 pm
by djthomas
Brian D. wrote:"Hooligans" and "ruffians". Djthomas you sound like Tweed Ring!
Just once I'd love to cite someone for Hooliganism, but alas no such code exists in Ohio; we have to stick with the old rioting and disorderly conduct statutes. It's a very real crime in Europe. I once worked with an Englishman that was banned from entering France due to his conviction for hooliganism. I didn't believe him until he brought his official US citizenship papers in and there was a copy of the police letter stating such.
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:29 pm
by Brian D.
I'm almost surprised that descendants of the original Thug and Vandal clans/tribes don't cry foul at how their ancestors have been besmirched nowadays.
Re: Civil Emergency ordinance
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:43 pm
by steves 50de
M-Quigley wrote:Did the city of New Orleans have a similar ordinance when they went door to door, confiscating guns? Or did they even care about the supposed legalities of it? What is someone going to do about it at that moment in time if the city does try to enforce the ordinance at some point in the future?
Come to your door to collect your gun.
now thats funny.