Civil Emergency ordinance

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Forum rules
This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby Birdman » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:46 pm

The city I work in has this in its codified municipal code: (I deleted non-firearm related statements)

509.09 CIVIL EMERGENCY.
(a) Whenever, in his judgment, the City Manager determines that an emergency exists as a result of any natural disaster or man-made calamity, or clear and present danger thereof, or riot, insurrection, mob action or other civil disturbance causing danger of injury to or damages to persons or property, he shall have power to impose by proclamation any or all of the following regulations necessary to restore the peace and order of the City:

(6) Prohibit or restrict the sale, distribution, dispensing or giving away of any firearms or ammunition of any character whatsoever;
(7) Order the closing of any and all establishments or portions thereof engaged in the sale, distribution, dispensing or giving away of firearms and/or ammunition;
(8) Prohibit or restrict the carrying or possession on the public streets or public sidewalks or in any public place or square or any other public place, a weapon or any object intended to be used as a weapon, including but not limited to, firearms , bows and arrows, air rifles, slingshots, knives, razors, broken bottles, fire bombs, missiles of any kind, clubs, blackjacks, billies, chains or similar items.

(e) No person shall fail to obey the lawful order of any police officer, militiaman, fireman, member of the National Guard, or other authorized person acting under orders or authority issued under the provisions of this section.


This can't be legal under ORC 9.68.....right? HA! Notice "Militiaman" in last sentence!
“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds”-Sam Adams

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
- Mark Twain, Notebook, 1935
User avatar
Birdman
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:22 pm
Location: Ashtabula County

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby Brian D. » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:59 pm

Yeah those need cleaning up. Law director happen by any chance to be a licensed attorney? I hear they can be less than impossible to edumacate as to actual legal vs. illegal municipal code language.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14502
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby wkdravenna » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:35 pm

I would be ok, I am part of the Ohio Unorganized Millita as per the ORC.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5923

I am ready !

(D) The unorganized militia consists of those citizens of the state as described in division (A) of this section who are not members of the Ohio organized militia.

(A) The Ohio organized militia consist of all citizens of the state who are not permanently handicapped, as handicapped is defined in section 4112.01 of the Revised Code, who are more than seventeen years, and not more than sixty-seven years, of age unless exempted as provided in section 5923.02 of the Revised Code, and who are members of one of the following:
My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. - JFK
User avatar
wkdravenna
 
Posts: 3025
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Location: Toledo Ohio

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby cashman966 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:17 pm

Looks like the ORC provides some back up for the ordinance at least as far as riots go. Not so much for the other situations.

3761.16 Areas threatened by riot may be cordoned off.

The chief administrative officer of a political subdivision with police powers, when engaged in suppressing a riot or when there is a clear and present danger of a riot, may cordon off any area or areas threatened by the riot and prohibit persons from entering the cordoned off area or areas except when carrying on necessary and legitimate pursuits and may prohibit the sale, offering for sale, dispensing, or transportation of firearms or other dangerous weapons, ammunition, dynamite, or other dangerous explosives in, to, or from the cordoned off areas.


Guess he could cordon off the city.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
User avatar
cashman966
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 3402
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:52 pm
Location: Delaware, Ohio

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby djthomas » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:38 pm

Cashman beat me to it with the exact ORC quote, but to me the operative phrase is "clear and present danger of a riot." A riot is simply four or more persons engaged in disorderly conduct. Any time there's a disaster of any real magnitude there's a fair chance of looters, hooligans and other ruffians descending on the area. Given the right circumstances I think the danger of a riot could be stretched to cover just about anything, and since it's an administrative judgment call the courts will probably be loathe to second guess that decision absent really compelling evidence to the contrary.

That said this statute doesn't seem to see much use that I'm aware of. Frankly I was very surprised that when the Nazi's came to Toledo the lawsuits to prevent weapons from being carried placed no reliance on this statute. They sought an injunction based on the general requirement to preserve the peace. IMHO it would have been a different ballgame if they had declared that area to be under a clear and present danger of riot and then used 3761.16 when someone contested their arrest for misconduct at an emergency.
Never ask if you can carry at a non-posted place, but always ask why you cannot at one that is!
Just because they offer call ahead seating doesn't mean you call ahead for carry permission.
User avatar
djthomas
 
Posts: 5775
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:09 am
Location: Medina County

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby Mr. Glock » Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:55 pm

I'd say your were a militiaman, Birdy.
“Without dignity there is no liberty, without justice there is no dignity, and without independence there are no free men.”
- Patrice Lumumba
OFCC Patron, NRA Benefactor Life, GOA & Hot Stove League Member
User avatar
Mr. Glock
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 8569
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:20 pm
Location: NE Ohio

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby eye95 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:19 am

The courts probably would rule against cordoning off the entire city unless the chief administrative officer could show that the emergency was a riot and that the entire city was threatened by the riot.

Furthermore, since the ordinance cites a greater scope than just rioting and since it grants greater power to restrict than the law does, the ordinance is not merely a restatement of Ohio law, which would be have been OK under 9.68.

Does the city have to actually invoke the ordinance before anyone can gain standing to sue under 9.68?
Be a Madisonian.

It finally happened. I have now been accused on OFCC of both being a cop-hater and then a cop-lover! Therefore, anyone making either accusation must not be paying attention.
eye95
*** Banned ***
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:01 pm

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby Brian D. » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:47 pm

"Hooligans" and "ruffians". Djthomas you sound like Tweed Ring! :)
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14502
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby M-Quigley » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:48 pm

Did the city of New Orleans have a similar ordinance when they went door to door, confiscating guns? Or did they even care about the supposed legalities of it? What is someone going to do about it at that moment in time if the city does try to enforce the ordinance at some point in the future?
M-Quigley
 
Posts: 2598
Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:06 pm
Location: Western Ohio

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby djthomas » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:31 pm

Brian D. wrote:"Hooligans" and "ruffians". Djthomas you sound like Tweed Ring! :)

Just once I'd love to cite someone for Hooliganism, but alas no such code exists in Ohio; we have to stick with the old rioting and disorderly conduct statutes. It's a very real crime in Europe. I once worked with an Englishman that was banned from entering France due to his conviction for hooliganism. I didn't believe him until he brought his official US citizenship papers in and there was a copy of the police letter stating such.
Never ask if you can carry at a non-posted place, but always ask why you cannot at one that is!
Just because they offer call ahead seating doesn't mean you call ahead for carry permission.
User avatar
djthomas
 
Posts: 5775
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:09 am
Location: Medina County

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby Brian D. » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:29 pm

I'm almost surprised that descendants of the original Thug and Vandal clans/tribes don't cry foul at how their ancestors have been besmirched nowadays.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14502
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Civil Emergency ordinance

Postby steves 50de » Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:43 pm

M-Quigley wrote:Did the city of New Orleans have a similar ordinance when they went door to door, confiscating guns? Or did they even care about the supposed legalities of it? What is someone going to do about it at that moment in time if the city does try to enforce the ordinance at some point in the future?

Come to your door to collect your gun. :lol: :lol: :lol: now thats funny.
steves 50de
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 3002
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:26 pm
Location: n.e. ohio


Return to ORC 9.68 Compliance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests