ohio county fairgrounds

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Forum rules
This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby Javelin Man » Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:40 pm

Cruiser wrote:Maybe now is the time for the members in these Counties to work on educating the Fair Boards? Instead of waiting till a week before the Fair!


Especially before the state fair board convention in January. 8)
Famous last words: "I just drank What?!-Socrates

bruh bruh is slang for "complete and total moron" -sodbuster95

The following is a list of children's books that didn't quite make it to the printing press...
1. What Is That Dog Doing to That Other Dog?
2. Daddy Drinks Because You Cry
3. You Were An Accident
4. Bi-Curious George
Javelin Man
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:53 pm
Location: Sandusky County

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby Brian D. » Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:51 pm

Where do they hold that convention, JM? Sounds like a good place for an OFCC educational meeting.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14500
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby Javelin Man » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:23 pm

I looked up ohiofairs.org and it has a link to registration for the convention January 7-10 in Columbus.
Famous last words: "I just drank What?!-Socrates

bruh bruh is slang for "complete and total moron" -sodbuster95

The following is a list of children's books that didn't quite make it to the printing press...
1. What Is That Dog Doing to That Other Dog?
2. Daddy Drinks Because You Cry
3. You Were An Accident
4. Bi-Curious George
Javelin Man
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:53 pm
Location: Sandusky County

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby cashman966 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:00 pm

Werz wrote:Better slow down, lads. There are fairgrounds that are owned by private agricultural societies which are treated just like any other premises owned by a private entity. They can post the premises, and you had better comply.

The buildings are another issue. Most buildings lie vacant year-round, and they don't qualify as government facilities. But some - maybe the one that houses the fair board office - may be legitimately posted as a government facility.

And then there's the issue of the premises being leased to a private entity. Try carrying a loaded gun into one of the several gun shows held on fairgrounds in this state. Let us know how that works out for you.



They are not Private, they are Independant. But according to the "Description of the Entity" in their biennial State Audits they are still bodies corporate and politic.

A. Description of the Entity

The Albany Independent Agricultural Society, Athens County (the Society), is a body corporate and politic established to exercise the rights and privileges conveyed to it by the constitution and laws of the State of Ohio. The Society is an independent agricultural society corporation formed under Chapter 1711 of the Ohio Revised Code.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
User avatar
cashman966
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 3402
Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 9:52 pm
Location: Delaware, Ohio

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby Werz » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:24 am

cashman966 wrote:
Werz wrote:Better slow down, lads. There are fairgrounds that are owned by private agricultural societies which are treated just like any other premises owned by a private entity. They can post the premises, and you had better comply.

The buildings are another issue. Most buildings lie vacant year-round, and they don't qualify as government facilities. But some - maybe the one that houses the fair board office - may be legitimately posted as a government facility.

And then there's the issue of the premises being leased to a private entity. Try carrying a loaded gun into one of the several gun shows held on fairgrounds in this state. Let us know how that works out for you.

They are not Private, they are Independant. But according to the "Description of the Entity" in their biennial State Audits they are still bodies corporate and politic.

A. Description of the Entity

The Albany Independent Agricultural Society, Athens County (the Society), is a body corporate and politic established to exercise the rights and privileges conveyed to it by the constitution and laws of the State of Ohio. The Society is an independent agricultural society corporation formed under Chapter 1711 of the Ohio Revised Code.

That does not, per se, make them a political subdivision. They must be a "body corporate and politic" of a governmental entity, or a "body corporate and politic" responsible for governmental activities. If those words made them a political subdivision, then religious societies and religious endowment fund corporations would also be political subdivisions. See R.C. 1715.12, 1715.18.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
User avatar
Werz
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 5495
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:09 am

Werz wrote:...They must be a "body corporate and politic" of a governmental entity, or a "body corporate and politic" responsible for governmental activities...


The following two lines can be found in Greene Cty. Agricultural Soc. v. Liming (89 Ohio St.3d 551, 2000-Ohio-486)

"A county agricultural society is a political subdivision pursuant to R.C.
2744.01(F)."

"The conducting of a livestock competition at a county fair by a county
agricultural society is a proprietary function pursuant to R.C. Chapter 2744."
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 5384
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby Werz » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:30 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
Werz wrote:...They must be a "body corporate and politic" of a governmental entity, or a "body corporate and politic" responsible for governmental activities...


The following two lines can be found in Greene Cty. Agricultural Soc. v. Liming (89 Ohio St.3d 551, 2000-Ohio-486)

"A county agricultural society is a political subdivision pursuant to R.C.
2744.01(F)."

"The conducting of a livestock competition at a county fair by a county
agricultural society is a proprietary function pursuant to R.C. Chapter 2744."

Apparently, you fail to see the difference. Perhaps linking to two separate and consecutive statutes will help:
R.C. 1711.01: County Agricultural Societies
R.C. 1711.02: Independent Agricultural Societies

Note that the Ohio Supreme Court's rationale in Liming included:

"Black's Law Dictionary (7 Ed.1999) 167, defines 'body politic' as '[a] group of people regarded in a political (rather than private) sense and organized under a single governmental authority.'" (Emphasis added.) Greene Cty. Agricultural Soc. v. Liming, 89 Ohio St.3d 551, 555, 2000-Ohio-486

Since members of an independent agricultural society can span across three contiguous counties, they cannot be said to be under the flag of a single governmental authority. Therefore, Liming does not establish that they are political subdivisions.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
User avatar
Werz
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 5495
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:57 pm

Werz, you are correct, as usual.

I failed to see the difference.

Would Liming be persuasive in a legal challenge against independent ag societies?
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 5384
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:19 am

Wait, what about all the joint taxing districts and joint development districts?

Are those not bodies politic because they aren't formed under a single governmental authority?

And what constitutes a 'governmental authority'? Wouldn't the State of Ohio be the "governmental authority" since the independent ag society is formed under R.C. 1711.02?

A 'political subdivision' need only be smaller than the state, so a group of 3 counties, as allowed under R.C. 1711.02 CAN be a political subdivision.

Since the county and independent ag societies aren't held to different standards of performance throughout the rest R.C. 1711, and they both perform 'proprietary governmental functions', wouldn't Liming at least be persuasive?
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 5384
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby Werz » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:51 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Werz, you are correct, as usual.

I failed to see the difference.

Would Liming be persuasive in a legal challenge against independent ag societies?

First, you need to find one that posts the fairgrounds.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
User avatar
Werz
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 5495
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: ohio county fairgrounds

Postby Javelin Man » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:05 am

Werz wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Werz, you are correct, as usual.

I failed to see the difference.

Would Liming be persuasive in a legal challenge against independent ag societies?

First, you need to find one that posts the fairgrounds.


Attica Independent Fair qualifies for that challenge. Signs posted on the entry booths only during the fair. If I didn't race there and take plenty of their money, I'd challenge it myself. I got my start in the race horse business on those fairgrounds before the sprint car people ruined my horses and I had to move.
Famous last words: "I just drank What?!-Socrates

bruh bruh is slang for "complete and total moron" -sodbuster95

The following is a list of children's books that didn't quite make it to the printing press...
1. What Is That Dog Doing to That Other Dog?
2. Daddy Drinks Because You Cry
3. You Were An Accident
4. Bi-Curious George
Javelin Man
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
 
Posts: 6774
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:53 pm
Location: Sandusky County

Previous

Return to ORC 9.68 Compliance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest