Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by jgarvas »

tl;dr: The City of Dublin has conceded and all gun policies have been revoked and removed from all documentation, agreements, etc.

I meant to post this a few weeks ago and became side tracked and completely forgot about it. With the Dublin Irish Festival approaching next week I wanted to let everyone know we've succeeed in convincing them that their understanding of the law was flawed (if not a creative interpretation to get what they wanted)

The details:

As many of you know we pursued the City of Dublin over their rules and regulations at the Dublin Irish Festival. What many of you don't know is how it was brought to our attention and why we became involved. Mike Newbern tipped me off that he attended the event while wearing a kilt and a female and male private security guard at the gate joked about how they needed to get a girl to "inspect" his kilt. He blows this joke off and proceeds into the venue, somehow making them suspicious of what is really under his kilt.

Within about 20' of entering the festival he is approached by those same security guards and asked "Sir, do you have a gun?" and he refused to answer their question because they were not police officers. At this point the security guards motion the cops over. Now, this is the point where my personal opinion is that the security guards engage the cops to "compel" a notification and force Mike to identify. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a strategy they came up with ahead of the event. Lacking this interaction the police officers really have no reason to approach Mike.

These police officers just happen to have a card in their hands (which is defined in a Special Event Action Plan) and proceed to tell Mike that he can not reveal or "openly" display his firearm. It must remain concealed because they say so, according to their policy. Their policy was a very flawed interpretation of R.C. 2923.121(A) under the belief that they were a liquor licensee, and they rested their "concealed carry only" position on a very flawed interpretation of the "exemption" provided to CHLs (in a Class D establishment) in R.C. 2923.121(B)(1)(e).

Image

As a result of this I asked the City of Dublin to provide me with a laundry list of public records and received numerous documents including internal emails, discussions of banning firearms on their website, call cards for interaction with individuals detained or arrested, and copies of their TEMPORARY F2 liquor license, etc. In the process we found that vendors at the event were forbidden from possessing ANY firearm by contract and risked being fined. This is a "rule" prohibited by ORC 9.68.

In October I wrote the Law Director back with an analysis of the documents they provided and a comparison to Ohio Law contesting all of their variations of prohibition. We pointed out that nothing in R.C. 2923.121(B)(1)(e) compels a CHL holder to actually conceal their firearm - (e) is an exemption to (A) which is a prohibition on mere possession, not "visible" possession. We also pointed out that nothing in the law permitted them to prohibit possession (open or concealed) with or without a license to carry concealed.

Prior to offering all of these arguments the Law Director had offered to drive up to the Cleveland area and meet for lunch. Once we had explained our position on the matter it appeared he simply needed time to review all of the points (and never disputed anything).

As time went by I would occasionally ask for an update slowly concluding that they may attempt to do it again in 2015 (and that we may need to proceed with some type of legal intervention). In April of 2015 the law director responded and advised that the rules for vendors were modified to exclude firearms from the prohibition bringing them into compliance with ORC 9.68 in that respect.

Then earlier this month in response to my asking one last time the law director advised me that the City will not have any restrictions relating to firearms possession (openly or concealed) on festival grounds, but did point out that there are two locations within the festival that remain off limits by law (Dublin Recreation Center and City Hall) which obviously are in fact prohibited.
From: Smith, Jr., Stephen J. <redacted>
Date: Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: City of Dublin
To: Jeff Garvas <jeff@ohioccw.org>

Mr. Garvas,

The City will not have any restrictions relating to firearm possession (open or concealed) on festival grounds. Obviously, this is subject to limitations under Ohio law. The only reason I bring this up is that the festival grounds do include two buildings that are government facilities (Dublin Recreation Center and City Hall) where concealed carry is not permitted under R.C. 2923.126(B)(9).

If you would like to stop by the festival as a guest of the City, I would be happy to show you around.

Stephen


I want to make this clear - The City of Dublin Law Director has been extremely professional despite the duration of time this has taken and was likely challenged by politicians who didn't want to hear him revealing that what we were saying was the law and they had no options. I personally believe when presented with indisputable interpretation of the law the City had no choice but to back down or risk being taken to court and made the right choice based on sound legal advice from their law director.

It's my expectation that anyone going to the event at the end of this month should have no issues, encounter no signs, and not be harassed no matter how they carry. If that isn't the case let me know because despite being invited to the event by the Law Director I have a volunteer obligation with the National Multiple Sclerosis Society that weekend and will be quite busy.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by Tweed Ring »

I doubt I shall ever attend this festival. However, thank you on behalf for all your hard work for those who will attend in the years to come.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by Javelin Man »

Well done, very helpful to all of us not only at the Dublin Irish Festival but in other festivals around Ohio who may try the same thing.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by Bombarde32 »

It is my general preference that men not reveal or "openly" display ANYTHING under their kilt, firearm or otherwise. 8)

In all seriousness, thanks for the diligent follow through on this. The annual cat and mouse game with the City of Dublin was growing old.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by Chuck »

Great news!!

Thank you Jeff!!
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by pirateguy191 »

Was Mike wearing on of those sexy thigh holsters?
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by schmieg »

pirateguy191 wrote:Was Mike wearing on of those sexy thigh holsters?
I'm wondering if the security guards check under the skirts of women entering.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by sd790 »

Thanks for the details and thanks for your time to resolve this.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by fisher »

Thanks to everyone involved! Nice Job!
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by Tweed Ring »

Law Allows Open Carry Of Firearms At Dublin Irish Festival

Carr, the Floor Walker, sees the City of Dublin has been encouraged to follow the law in Ohio.

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/201 ... tival.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by troy bilt »

Got to love the CCW holder that lives next door. What a tool. :roll:

Thank you for all the time you spent in this matter.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by Tweed Ring »

Here's a question: based upon the Columbus Channel 10 article, the Dublin Chief seems to indicate he knew the law covering open carry of firearms at their festival. I assume their city law director was also so informed.

So...if the status of open carry in Ohio was known by these officials, why was their festival so posted for years?
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by gfrlaser »

Tweed Ring wrote:Here's a question: based upon the Columbus Channel 10 article, the Dublin Chief seems to indicate he knew the law covering open carry of firearms at their festival. I assume their city law director was also so informed.

So...if the status of open carry in Ohio was known by these officials, why was their festival so posted for years?
Cause they thought they could continue to get away with it.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by JediSkipdogg »

gfrlaser wrote:
Tweed Ring wrote:Here's a question: based upon the Columbus Channel 10 article, the Dublin Chief seems to indicate he knew the law covering open carry of firearms at their festival. I assume their city law director was also so informed.

So...if the status of open carry in Ohio was known by these officials, why was their festival so posted for years?
Cause they thought they could continue to get away with it.
Yup and until someone threatens possible court, they will keep trying.
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Re: Dublin Irish Festival Repeals all 9.68 violations

Post by docachna »

I tire of government officials (particularly LEO) who whine about "not getting any respect", when they breach their oath of office and enforce only those laws with which they happen to agree.
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