Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby wickedgreyzx3 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:15 am

http://www.cityoffairlawn.com/Calendar/ ... entID=1949

Click on agenda. 6:30pm if anyone else wants to make sure this passes. I probably won't be drinking any water that day in case if the need of a citizen lead filibuster, when council thinks they are above state law
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby Werz » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:18 am

wickedgreyzx3 wrote:http://www.cityoffairlawn.com/Calendar/Home/SingleEvent?eventID=1949

Click on agenda. 6:30pm if anyone else wants to make sure this passes. I probably won't be drinking any water that day in case if the need of a citizen lead filibuster, when council thinks they are above state law

Let us know how it goes. I would probably be there if I was at home, but it's a long way from Colorado.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby wickedgreyzx3 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:35 pm

New legislation passed mirrioning ORC. 9.68, and went into effect immediately

Hopefully the signs come down soon.

Council was not happy about it, but the mayor and law director showed much gratitude towards me for bringing it to their attention.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby pirateguy191 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:00 pm

wickedgreyzx3 wrote:New legislation passed mirrioning ORC. 9.68, and went into effect immediately

Hopefully the signs come down soon.

Council was not happy about it, but the mayor and law director showed much gratitude towards me for bringing it to their attention.


Great job.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:32 pm

wickedgreyzx3 wrote:New legislation passed mirrioning ORC. 9.68, and went into effect immediately

Hopefully the signs come down soon.

Council was not happy about it, but the mayor and law director showed much gratitude towards me for bringing it to their attention.

Well done!
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby Werz » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:13 pm

wickedgreyzx3 wrote:New legislation passed mirrioning ORC. 9.68, and went into effect immediately

Hopefully the signs come down soon.

Council was not happy about it, but the mayor and law director showed much gratitude towards me for bringing it to their attention.

Excellent! I'm surprised that some council members didn't try to delay it. That seems to be a common tactic.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby Metal1 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:11 am

Slight Thread Drift.....

I've had several interactions with Poland Village and the posting of a "No Weapons" sign at Poland Municipal Forest or locally know as Poland Woods. The Chief told me that the sign stays regardless of 9.68, he doesn't care.
He thinks he is above the law in his little Podunk Village. He got reprimanded a few years ago for nepotism by hiring his son full time. Granted it was only a reprimand and his little boy is an Officer there now.

Village of Poland, Ohio
308 South Main Street
Poland, Ohio 44514-2027
Office: (330) 757-2112
Fax: (330) 757-1680
E-mail: pvadmin@zoominternet.net


I'd love to have this sign taken down and to have an Open Carry walk in this Village. I posted this in the 9.68 Forum before but nothing happened.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:55 am

Metal1 wrote:I've had several interactions with Poland Village and the posting of a "No Weapons" sign at Poland Municipal Forest or locally know as Poland Woods. The Chief told me that the sign stays regardless of 9.68, he doesn't care.


I'm not familiar with the makeup of the village government, but if the village council (assuming there is such a thing) directs the Chief to remove the sign, would he not do so? Seems like the interaction needs to be with whoever signs the Chief's paycheck, as it were.

Metal1 wrote:I'd love to have this sign taken down and to have an Open Carry walk in this Village. I posted this in the 9.68 Forum before but nothing happened.

Not sure how many other members are in that part of the state, but there is certainly nothing to prevent you from being the point man for dealing with the village and organizing the walk. Some folks are more willing to travel to participate in a walk than would be willing to be the person to deal with a village they do not reside in or near.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby wickedgreyzx3 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:59 pm

Metal1 wrote:Slight Thread Drift.....

I've had several interactions with Poland Village and the posting of a "No Weapons" sign at Poland Municipal Forest or locally know as Poland Woods. The Chief told me that the sign stays regardless of 9.68, he doesn't care.
He thinks he is above the law in his little Podunk Village. He got reprimanded a few years ago for nepotism by hiring his son full time. Granted it was only a reprimand and his little boy is an Officer there now.

Village of Poland, Ohio
308 South Main Street
Poland, Ohio 44514-2027
Office: (330) 757-2112
Fax: (330) 757-1680
E-mail: pvadmin@zoominternet.net


I'd love to have this sign taken down and to have an Open Carry walk in this Village. I posted this in the 9.68 Forum before but nothing happened.


The cheif needs to be told his job is to enforce the law not interpret it. He needs fired and locked up in prison
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby Metal1 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:48 pm

I tested the water there at the Park last year by openly carrying. Someone called on me and I told the responding LEO that 9.68 trumped the illegal sign. He wanted to ID me and I refused so he waited for me to leave and run the plate on my car.

They seem to think they can enforce their own made up laws.

The Village is located outside of Youngstown if anyone is interested.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby JustJack » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:58 pm

How's this?
It has been brought to my attention that their is an ordinance on the books for the Village of Poland that is not in compliance with Ohio Revised Code, specifically Ordinance 678.16. Per the online listing of your ordinances, 678.16 states:
"(a) No person shall carry, possess, discharge, or have under their control firearms of any description, air, gas or pellet guns, paintball guns, sling shots, fireworks, explosives, or dangerous ordnance of any kind on or into Poland Forest lands except with specific written permission of the Poland Chief of Police.
(b) No person shall carry or use bows, crossbows or longbows or arrows on Poland Forest lands except by specific written permission granted by the Chief of Police.
(c) Whoever violates this section shall be found guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree."

Per Ohio Revised Code, specifically ORC 9.68, this ordinance is null and void and not only unenforcable, but opens the Village up to litigation. ORC 9.68 states:
"(A) The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.

(B) In addition to any other relief provided, the court shall award costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person, group, or entity that prevails in a challenge to an ordinance, rule, or regulation as being in conflict with this section.

(C) As used in this section:

(1) The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition.

(2) "Firearm" has the same meaning as in section 2923.11 of the Revised Code.

(D) This section does not apply to either of the following:

(1) A zoning ordinance that regulates or prohibits the commercial sale of firearms, firearm components, or ammunition for firearms in areas zoned for residential or agricultural uses;

(2) A zoning ordinance that specifies the hours of operation or the geographic areas where the commercial sale of firearms, firearm components, or ammunition for firearms may occur, provided that the zoning ordinance is consistent with zoning ordinances for other retail establishments in the same geographic area and does not result in a de facto prohibition of the commercial sale of firearms, firearm components, or ammunition for firearms in areas zoned for commercial, retail, or industrial uses."

Normally, especially since your ordinance was on the books prior to the passage of 9.68, I would presume this is simply an oversite. However, my contact has informed me that he has notified 2 separate members of your police department (a Sgt and the Chief) and been told, for lack of better description, to "pound sand". As plainly stated in section (b) not only can your municipality be sued over this ordinance, when you lose (and you will, just ask Clyde and Cleveland), you will be forced to pay all costs associated with the lawsuit. It is my advice that the Village of Poland have their law director/solicitor verify my comments in regards to the illegality of your ordinance, draft a resolution to rectify it, pass said resolution as an emergency, remove the signs at Poland Woods, and educate your Chief of Police on proper interactions with the public. Please reply to this e-mail at your earliest possible convenience and keep me appraised as to the status of this issue.

Sincerely,


For anyone close who wants to make an "in person" visit here's some committee meetings that would/should apply:

Poland Village Council Meetings are held the first and third Tuesday of each month in Poland Village Town Hall.
Caucus is at 7:00 p.m., with Regular Meetings starting at 7:30 pm.
The public is invited and encouraged to attend.

Buildings, Lands, Utilities, Parks, and Recreation
Third Tuesday monthly at 6:30 p.m. in Poland Village Town Hall

Poland Municipal Forest Board of Trustees
Fourth Tuesday monthly at 7:00 p.m. in Poland Village Town Hall

Police
First Tuesday monthly at 6:30 p.m. in Poland Village Town Hall
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby westsidebestside » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:26 am

JustJack wrote:How's this?

Normally, especially since your ordinance was on the books prior to the passage of 9.68, I would presume this is simply an oversite.


*oversight - oversite is a layer of concrete under the ground floor of a building.

/ocd
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby BobK » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:40 am

Nice job, however, I would recommend using the phrase "pound sand". It does not help to express disdain or contempt for the police chief.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby centermass » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:44 am

Good job, y'all.
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Re: Croghan Park Fairlawn, Posted

Postby Metal1 » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:12 pm

JustJack: Excellent letter. Did you send it in? If not, and you don't mind I will send it in if you allow it?

If you did, please keep us informed of a response. I doubt you'll get one though.
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