Hancock County Fairgrounds (in Findlay)

[MyWifeSaidYes]

From another thread:

I went to the Hancock County Fairgrounds in Findlay today for the "Findlay Armed Forces Day" and they are still posted no weapons on the gate as you drive in. Old topic, but its what I referenced before going, to see if I could carry. The sign is a bit obscure and off on the side fence as you pull up to gatehouse...

Thought it would be good for Hancock to have their own thread while we work on this.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Sent this:

Dear Mr. Thomas-

It has come to my attention that the Hancock County Fairgrounds still has one or more "No guns" signs on the fence or gates of the property.

I have also been informed that you were notified in June of 2014 that such a sign on the open area of a publicly owned fairground violates Ohio's Revised Code 9.68, and that you responded (June 11, 2014) you had "begun the process to get this corrected, and will soon be taking it to the board for approval".

I have not begun to investigate this violation myself and am hoping that if this sign or signs exist, it is simply an oversight and that you will promptly act to bring the fairgrounds into compliance with state law.

I have worked with many other agricultural societies, park districts, townships, villages, cities and other political subdivisions over the last 5 years to help them avoid lawsuits under R.C. 9.68. My goal is to help public entities NOT spend taxpayer money on lawsuits. The city of Cleveland and the city of Clyde have BOTH taken the fight over R.C. 9.68 to the Ohio Supreme Court and did not prevail. Cleveland estimates they spent $70,000 losing that case (Cleveland v. State, 2010)

Other cities, such as Cleveland Heights, ignored numerous requests to remove their invalid signs. In this case, Ohioans for Concealed Carry, a gun rights group, filed a lawsuit. That city chose to settle out of court prior to the start of the trial.

In my opinion, such lawsuits are simply a waste of time and money when you consider how quickly signs can be removed and "No weapons" policies in fair books can be adjusted to not apply to firearms.

If I have the wrong information and there aren't any "No guns" signs, or any "No weapons" signs that prohibit firearms, please let me know and I will have a local resident confirm that.

If the society did overlook any such sign or fair policy, please let me know if it is being corrected and, if so, when you expect that to be finished.

Thanks so much for your time.

-"MWSY"
Ohio's Friendliest Compliance Counselor
May 17, 2015

[JustJack]

Well this is distressing. I honestly thought this was taken care of. I have been swamped with work and hadn't had a chance to do more follow up on this. I did send e-mails on 8-7 and 8-22 last year asking for update, but never got an answer. I have noticed that since my initial e-mail last year the actual 'Rules' are no longer posted on the Ag Society website. Wonder if they thought I'd just go away?

For reference sake, here's copies of the e-mail I have previously sent and received.

Greetings and salutations! I am writing to in an attempt to find the policies for the Hancock County Fairgrounds in regards to firearms. I am curious as to what the current policies are, and if there are any differences in policy between when the actual Fair is on and when the grounds are being used for other activities such as the Steam Engine Show and other events. I have looked on the website http://www.hancockfairgrounds.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and have not been able to locate any rules or policies other than those that relate to entering into events or on the procedure for voting new members. If you could reply to this email with a copy of any rules and policies, or with a web address of where to look them up myself it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Sincerely,
XXXXX

Sir;

If you would please go to our web site and click on the SENIOR FAIR tab, click on Senior Fair Book. You will find our weapons policy on the left side of the headers. Click on it and it will show you our current policy.



Dave Thomas

Manager

Mr. Thomas,

Thank you for your timely reply. I was successful in finding the policy as you directed me. However, upon finding it I was quite distressed to see that it is not in compliance with State Law, and has not been since Ohio Revised Code 9.68 came into effect on 3-14-2007. As you probably know, Agricultural Societies are not private entities, and any land they own, or county-owned land they manage, is not private property.

This can be confirmed by:
-reviewing Ohio Revised Code 1711.13,
-reviewing the Ohio Supreme Court opinion in Greene Cty. Agricultural Soc. v. Liming,
-contacting the Ohio Attorney General for an opinion. The OAG has no less than 2 previous opinions confirming that Ag. Societies, while independent, are still public entities.

As a public entity, the Society must follow all general provisions of state law, including ORC 9.68, which prohibits public entities from having ordinances, rules, or regulations restricting the possession, carrying, transporting, or storing of firearms, firearms components, or firearm ammunition.

As such that the Hancock County Fairgrounds themselves are owned by Hancock County, as confirmed by the Hancock County Auditor's Office (Parcel # 610000927040, Acres: 40, Land Use: 620 Exempt Property owned by Counties) I have CC's this email to the County Commissioner's Office as well.

Thankfully there is plenty of time before the fair this year to correct this. Please keep me apprised of any action on this issue. While I am not a lawyer, if I can offer any assistance in rectifying this issue, please feel free to ask.

Sincerely,
XXXXX

Sir;

I thank you for bringing this error to my attention. I have begun the process to get this corrected, and will soon be taking it to the board for approval.

We must do our homework first to make sure that we comply to both “OPEN” and “CONCEALED” rules set forth by the ORC.

Once again, thank for bringing this matter to our attention.

Mr. Thomas,

Thank you for your previous reply on this matter, and I do apologize for being delinquent in my reply. I was curious as to the current status of this issue.

Sincerely,
XXXXX

Good afternoon. While I am cognizant of the effect the preparations for the upcoming fair put on you, and the Ag Society's time, I was hoping to get an update before the fair begins. Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
XXXXX

[MyWifeSaidYes]

By all means, feel free to contact them again.

If you are in the area and can get a picture of the offending sign, that would be wonderful.

[JustJack]

By all means, feel free to contact them again.

If you are in the area and can get a picture of the offending sign, that would be wonderful.

I did recontact Mr. Thomas yesterday, and got a reply today.

Sir;

Please help me for I am not sure where this sign is.

We had a show here this weekend and they MAY have posted signs, not sure.

If this was one of our signs please let me know at which location it was at . I thought we removed ALL signs prior to our fair.

The last thing we what to do is be in the wrong.

Thank you

Dave

I'll have to see if I can get over there and find this sign, unless gbranham can give us a more specific location. Since he mentioned a gate house I presume it's either the entrance off E. Sandusky St, Wyandot Ave, or FIshlock Ave. Fishlock and Wyandot are usually locked when not in use, but the on off Sandusky is always open.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

JustJack-

gbranham sent me a link for the sign. It is to the right of Gate 3 and faded.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xom9tt0h1a9rk ... s.png?dl=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Let us know if Mr. Thomas needs a better picture.

[JustJack]

Thanks MWSY and gbranham. I sent the following:

Mr. Thomas,

Thank you for your quick reply. The sign in question is apparently rather faded, in most likely was simply missed. It is beside the pedestrian entrance at Gate #3 off Fishlock Ave. I have linked to a "Google street view" image with a yellow arrow indicating the location of the sign. The image itself is from 2013, but the sign was seen during the Armed Forces event last weekend. Since the newer sign stating "STOP" at the top, visible to the left, which mentions "No Firearms" was not mentioned by my acquaintance, I presume it was already removed. Thank you again for the quick reply and being open to conversation on this topic. It is, unfortunately, not how this issue usually goes with other Agricultural Societies in Ohio. I hope to see you at this years fair.

Sincerely,

XXXXX

[gbranham]

I drove over today and seen both gate 3 and gate 5 still have it posted. Sorry, I don't know how to attach photos, so I put them on my dropbox.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4kyftc5q1npvq ... 7.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iget7ez3rb2kd ... 6.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ai4jnghfgzke3 ... 5.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lcmtlnj7t56ri ... 4.jpg?dl=0

[JustJack]

Awesome. I sent a new email including those pictures. It seems like they want to play along and just missed them. We shall see.

[JustJack]

Received this email today.

Sir;

Sorry for the oversight of those signs. I told my help to remove and they must have missed them.

I , myself went around this am and took down those signs. Please feel free to double check to make sure we have them ALL down.

Thank you

Dave

[MyWifeSaidYes]

If you want it done right...

[CousinCarl]

Have you thanked Mr. Thomas? He seems like a decent guy.

[docachna]

Have you thanked Mr. Thomas? He seems like a decent guy.

Darn right. Most of these guys get very, very territorial the first time you come in even insinuating that they're in the wrong. This guy's a straight shooter, from all indications.