City of Findlay Reservoir #2

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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JustJack
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City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by JustJack »

I got into a discussion with a few of my friends earlier about where you can and can't carry and the one mentioned that he had seen signs at the reservoir stating no firearms. I looked up their [url=https://%20https//www.ci.findlay.oh.us/uploads/File/Recreation/RULES%20AND%20REGULATIONS%20FOR%20RECREATIONAL%20USE%20OF%20WATER%20SUPPLY%20CITY%20OF%20FINDLAY%20032310.pdf]rules[/url] online and sure enough, Section (6)(4)(b) states:No person may have, carry, or use any firearm or dangerous ordinance on Reservoir property except while engaged in lawful hunting of waterfowl. So I popped off this email:
Greetings all,

It has been brought to my attention, via a conversation with some friends, of a few discrepancies in the RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR RECREATIONAL USE OF WATER SUPPLY CITY OF FINDLAY.
Per SECTION 6: ( HPD 12.0-15.0 ) RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES, subsection 4. Hunting;
b) No person may have, carry, or use any firearm or dangerous ordinance on Reservoir property except while engaged in lawful hunting of waterfowl.

As such that Ohio Revised Code 9.68, which took effect in 2007, strictly prohibits Counties, Townships, Cities, Park Districts, and any other form of Government lower than the Ohio General Assembly from enacting or enforcing any laws in relation to firearms "Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law,..."

As such that no section of the United States Constitution or the Ohio Constitution, nor any state or federal laws, prohibit a person who may lawfully own, possess, or carry a firearm from doing so openly or concealed with a license issued by the State of Ohio or another state whose license Ohio recognizes, on public or government property excluding buildings not used primarily as a shelter or rest room, and as ORC 2923.126(B) does not include parks, reservoirs, or recreational areas in the list of prohibited places, rule (6)(4)(b) is invalid and unenforceable.

As such that ORC 9.68 also states;

B) In addition to any other relief provided, the court shall award costs and reasonable attorney fees to any person, group, or entity that prevails in a challenge to an ordinance, rule, or regulation as being in conflict with this section.

It is my estimation that it would behoove the City of Findlay to amend the Rules and Regulations at their earliest possible convenience to protect the taxpayers from any undue expense associated with any lawsuits which could arise due to this issue. As ORC 9.68 has already been challenged in court by both the City of Clyde and the City of Cleveland, and upheld by the Ohio Supreme Court both times, any lawsuit filed would simply be a waste of taxpayer money and of the City's time and resources.

I believe a slightly altered version of Section 2.15 of the Hancock Park District rules (2013) could be used to replace or amend (6)(4)(b);

2.15 Weapons
(A) Carry a concealed handgun in any HPD building that is not used primarily as a shelter or restroom.

(B) Carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordinance in the park or on a trail while under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

(C) Transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle unless the person may lawfully possess the firearm, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:
(1) In a closed package, box, or case.
(2) In a compartment which can be reached only by leaving the vehicle.
(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for that purpose.
(4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped if the firearm is at least twenty-four inches in overall length as measured from the muzzle to the part of the stock furthest from the muzzle and if the barrel is at least eighteen inches in length, or, in plain sight if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped. 8
(5) Discharge a firearm in the park or on a trail, or upon or over a public road or highway.

My recommended alterations would be to change (C)(5) to (D) as such that it is it's own section and not a condition of (C) and to replace (C)(5) with the following:
(5) Or if the person has a valid Concealed Handgun License issued by the State of Ohio or another State whose license is recognized by the State of Ohio.

Please feel free to validate and confirm my statements and contact me at any time with any questions you may have. I have already worked with the City of Tiffin, the City of Oregon, and the Village of North Baltimore to correct similar oversights and would be more than happy to help in this case.

Thank you,
to the Clerk of Council, City Council, Law Director Rasmussen, Police Chief Horne, and Mayor Mihalik. We'll see what I can stir up.
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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by Javelin Man »

Well done!
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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by JustJack »

Tomorrow will be 3 weeks since my initial email. If I've not heard back from someone, and so far I've not heard back from ANYONE, I will be sending a follow up email. If that falls on dear ears, or blind eyes as may be the case, I may have to find a way to attend a city council meeting.
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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

JustJack wrote:Tomorrow will be 3 weeks since my initial email. If I've not heard back from someone, and so far I've not heard back from ANYONE, I will be sending a follow up email. If that falls on dear ears, or blind eyes as may be the case, I may have to find a way to attend a city council meeting.
City council meeting was tonight. Next one is on June 2nd.
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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by JustJack »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
JustJack wrote:Tomorrow will be 3 weeks since my initial email. If I've not heard back from someone, and so far I've not heard back from ANYONE, I will be sending a follow up email. If that falls on dear ears, or blind eyes as may be the case, I may have to find a way to attend a city council meeting.
City council meeting was tonight. Next one is on June 2nd.
Thank you, but I am aware of the council schedule. I just work 2nd shift so I have to do a little forward planning if I find I need to attend. Now if another member would like to pop in, that would be very appreciated. I definitely won't be able to attend the June 2nd meeting, but could plausibly figure out a way to get off work for the June 16th meeting.
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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by JustJack »

Received this email from the City Law Director, Don Rasmussen, today.
Mr. XXXX:



I am aware of the various court rulings and I am working with the City Park Board, who’s responsibility it is to enact our City Park Rules and Regulations, to bring their rules into compliance. The rule that you specifically refer to in your email, however, is a Hancock County Park District rule and your inquiry regarding that specific rule should be directed to the County Park Board.



I am not sure who the legal representative for the Hancock County Park District is so I cannot provide you any contact information. I do not believe that the County Prosecutor is their legal representative but perhaps they can direct you.
Now, I have been told I tend to read tone into the written word to much sometimes, but does anyone else think this sounds like the brush off/who are you to bother me/I have more important things to do, or it is just me?
I'm also confused how he confused the rule I was at issue with
RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR RECREATIONAL USE OF WATER SUPPLY CITY OF FINDLAY.

Per SECTION 6: ( HPD 12.0-15.0 ) RECREATIONAL ACTIVITIES, subsection 4. Hunting;

b) No person may have, carry, or use any firearm or dangerous ordinance on Reservoir property except while engaged in lawful hunting of waterfowl.
with the rule I was using as an example of a way to fix the incorrect one
I believe a slightly altered version of Section 2.15 of the Hancock Park District rules (2013) could be used to replace or amend (6)(4)(b);



2.15 Weapons

(A) Carry a concealed handgun in any HPD building that is not used primarily as a shelter or restroom.



(B) Carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordinance in the park or on a trail while under the influence of alcohol or drugs.



(C) Transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle unless the person may lawfully possess the firearm, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:

(1) In a closed package, box, or case.

(2) In a compartment which can be reached only by leaving the vehicle.

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for that purpose.

(4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped if the firearm is at least twenty-four inches in overall length as measured from the muzzle to the part of the stock furthest from the muzzle and if the barrel is at least eighteen inches in length, or, in plain sight if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped. 8

(5) Discharge a firearm in the park or on a trail, or upon or over a public road or highway.

My recommended alterations would be to change (C)(5) to (D) as such that it is it's own section and not a condition of (C) and to replace (C)(5) with the following:

(5) Or if the person has a valid Concealed Handgun License issued by the State of Ohio or another State whose license is recognized by the State of Ohio.
Any thoughts?
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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Yep.

You confused him.

You also assumed that he would actually read your email AND understand it. :roll: :P

You must use emails with few paragraphs, paragraphs with few sentences, sentences with few words and words with few syllables.

And if you can use short syllables, that would be good, too.

:mrgreen:
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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by gaptrick »

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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by Brian D. »

My term for that sort of reply is "willful ignorance".
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Re: City of Findlay Reservoir #2

Post by docachna »

Whoever it was that responded to you - go over their head.

"Apparently my first letter was misinterpreted. I am hoping you see the situation for what it is."

Translation: "Your employee is a tool."
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