Hunting regs that violate 9.68

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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Morne
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by Morne »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:You'll notice in cashman's citations that there are no provisions for the chief to regulate firearms.

He can regulate hunting. He can control when to hunt, where to hunt, how many to hunt. He can probably regulate HOW to hunt (archery, muzzle loader, shotgun, etc.), to keep you from using rifles, but he can't regulate what you carry.
...and if you violate their rules they can ban you from buying a hunting license.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by Cruiser »

My what convoluted web we have woven! :cry:
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by Suckerspawn »

I have written to my State Congressman and State Senator stating specifically where I believe the Division of Wildlife has exceeded it's authority by regulating firearms in general.
No, I am not a policeman. I am a mercenary praying for peace on Earth.
I don't want a tactical advantage. I want the bad guys to repent and find a new line of work.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Werz wrote:...
Really? Given your legal theory, these provisions would also be in violation of R.C. 9.68:
1501:31-15-02. General hunting and trapping provisions.
***
(M) It shall be unlawful for any person or any member of a party to have in his possession a firearm or any other device that could be used in hunting while training or working a dog pursuing furbearing animals during the closed season.
(N) It shall be unlawful for any person or any member of a party to have in his possession a firearm or any other device that could be used in hunting while training or working a dog pursuing coyotes, at any time except from sunrise to sunset daily.
Yes, those would be in violation.
Werz wrote:Good luck with that one, Sparky.
"Whatever you say, slick." -Agent K

I have tilted at windmills before and I see no reason to stop now. :D

Can anyone offer the reasoning behind these two sections?
Are they afraid that the dogs will try to take my guns?

Is it legal to work dogs pursuing furbearing animals during the closed season with no firearm?
If so, how is that a closed season?

In section (M), they could restrict the USE of guns while working dogs and be compliant with 9.68.

In section (N), they could restrict the USE of guns for coyote hunting from sunset to sunrise and be compliant with 9.68.

As it is, if my dogs are not trained to defend me, I am left helpless in the woods, disarmed by the state with an arbitrary law regulation.

These regulations ARE in conflict with the ORC, specifically R.C. 9.68.

The following section is also in conflict:
(J) It shall be unlawful to carry any firearm or weapon unless displayed and visible on the outermost garment, and only when carried in accordance with the Revised Code. Persons possessing a valid Ohio concealed carry license issued pursuant to sections 2923.125 and 2923.123 of the Revised Code or a valid conceal carry license from a state with a reciprocity agreement with Ohio to carry concealed handguns, or who comply with federal legislation HR218, "The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004" are exempted.
But THIS one is the one they need to expand and enhance:
(K) It shall be unlawful to shoot, shoot at or kill a wild animal with a firearm carried concealed under a license issued pursuant to section 2923.125 of the Revised Code or federal legislation HR 218, "The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004."
Restrict how I USE my gun during hunting related activities, but don't tell me I can't carry a gun.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by mreising »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:You'll notice in cashman's citations that there are no provisions for the chief to regulate firearms.

He can regulate hunting. He can control when to hunt, where to hunt, how many to hunt. He can probably regulate HOW to hunt (archery, muzzle loader, shotgun, etc.), to keep you from using rifles, but he can't regulate what you carry.
I think this part allows the regulation of firearms to be used:
The chief may regulate any of the following:

(A) Taking and possessing wild animals, at any time and place or in any number, quantity, or length, and in any manner, and with such devices as he prescribes;
.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by Suckerspawn »

mreising wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:You'll notice in cashman's citations that there are no provisions for the chief to regulate firearms.

He can regulate hunting. He can control when to hunt, where to hunt, how many to hunt. He can probably regulate HOW to hunt (archery, muzzle loader, shotgun, etc.), to keep you from using rifles, but he can't regulate what you carry.
I think this part allows the regulation of firearms to be used:
The chief may regulate any of the following:

(A) Taking and possessing wild animals, at any time and place or in any number, quantity, or length, and in any manner, and with such devices as he prescribes;
.
Yes, the Chief can regulate firearms as used in hunting but he can not regulate firearms in general.
No, I am not a policeman. I am a mercenary praying for peace on Earth.
I don't want a tactical advantage. I want the bad guys to repent and find a new line of work.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Right.

Criminalizing the carrying of a firearm because I MAY hunt with it, is no different that outlawing the driving of motor vehicles because I MAY run someone over.

It's just not right. And, in Ohio, it's illegal.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by fisher »

I fish with a bow in the spring. Who is to stop ODNR from enacting rules telling fishermen what they can carry? Fishermen could, theoretically, shoot the fish with a firearm. That is illegal, though. It is the wrong tool for the job, also. Unless you are talking about those flying Asian Carp. I really think there should be a shotgun season for those nasty pieces of fish. It would be like aquatic trap shooting. :D
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by Suckerspawn »

Suckerspawn,

I apologize for the delayed response, but I received your email and am working with the ODNR and ODW to learn more about the language in the code. I see through the wording on your fax where how the language does not seem to be in line with the ORC.

As I learn more, I am curious as to what peaked your interest in this issue Have you run into trouble with the statutory restrictions?

Again, I am trying to see how the two sets of wording reconcile with one another. I will be sure to keep you informed as I learn more. In the meantime, please feel free to contact my office if you have any additional questions, or if I can be of any assistance.

Best regards,

Mike Henne

State Representative

Ohio’s 40th House District

Office Phone: (614) 644-8051
No, I am not a policeman. I am a mercenary praying for peace on Earth.
I don't want a tactical advantage. I want the bad guys to repent and find a new line of work.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by Suckerspawn »

I just got a call from a nice lady at the Attorney General's office. She said the AG does not get involved in these things until a suit is filed.

I wrote to the Chief of the Division of Wildlife last week.
No, I am not a policeman. I am a mercenary praying for peace on Earth.
I don't want a tactical advantage. I want the bad guys to repent and find a new line of work.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by Brian D. »

Suckerspawn wrote:I just got a call from a nice lady at the Attorney General's office. She said the AG does not get involved in these things until a suit is filed.
Just the view from my non-rose colored glasses: The Ohio AG's office spends a great amount of time and effort not getting involved with legal questions in any sort of pre-emptive manner. It's not quite the same thing, but why in the world wouldn't the AG have something public to say to the overseers of the Franklin County Metroparks about their policy of not allowing their sworn law enforcement park rangers to carry firearms while on duty? Mike DeWine has for years run on a platform of being a staunch ally of LEOs.

Sorry about the topic shift, but I stand by my example.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

We need to realize that the Attorney General does NOT work for the public.

The AG only works for the state and it's various political subdivisions.

The work they do for citizens (fraud, phone scams, etc.) are programs enacted by laws or resolutions.

The governor can tell the AG to do something.

Either house of the state General Assembly can pass a resolution to tell the AG to do something.

That's it.

Every other political subdivision can request an opinion of, or be represented by, the AG.

I've stopped bothering the AG about topics which they can do nothing about.

Next deer season, I may be carrying a shotgun NOT limited to 3 rounds AND a rifle AND not have a hunting license.

This post will serve as my intent to NOT hunt during the 2014 deer gun season or any other open season on deer.
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Re: Hunting regs that violate 9.68

Post by gaptrick »

Do NOT forget the recorder...!
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Reply from the Chief of Division of Wildlife

Post by Suckerspawn »

I have received a reply from the Chief of the Division of Wildlife. It came via USPS and is two pages long. How do I post it here?
No, I am not a policeman. I am a mercenary praying for peace on Earth.
I don't want a tactical advantage. I want the bad guys to repent and find a new line of work.
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Re: Reply from the Chief of Division of Wildlife

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Suckerspawn wrote:I have received a reply from the Chief of the Division of Wildlife. It came via USPS and is two pages long. How do I post it here?
Hold the first page up against the computer screen until we've all read it, then hold the second page.

:P

Seriously, if you do not have a scanner, you can have it scanned at a Staple's or FedEx/Kinko's type store.

Scan it as a PDF, if possible.

After that, you can post the PDF file to an online site, or email it to me and I'll post it.
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