Cunkle's Hollow near Hocking Hills

[Curzyk]

Went to Cunkle's Hollow today and found verbiage on a Division of Natural Areas & Preserves Rules and Regulations sign that said "No firearms, dangerous ordinance, fireworks and air guns permitted". Another sign said that we were leaving the state park and entering another area so other rules apply. Cunkle's Hollow appears to be managed by ODNR and I saw nothing about the US Army Corps of Engineers, so I assume this was an illegitimate posting and in violation of 9.68?

[Werz]

The current published rules add: "except as permitted by the Ohio Revised Code." Interesting.

[Curzyk]

The current published rules add: "except as permitted by the Ohio Revised Code." Interesting.

Oh, nice! The URL at the bottom of the posted rules wasn't valid. Guess it's just old. Thank you for sharing!

[JustJack]

The current published rules add: "except as permitted by the Ohio Revised Code." Interesting.

Oh, nice! The URL at the bottom of the posted rules wasn't valid. Guess it's just old. Thank you for sharing!

Don't get too happy. It's still invalid even with the "except as permitted by the Ohio Revised Code." caveat, since Open Carry is legal, because there is no ORC against it, but there is also no ORC that 'permits' it, so by default the sign is still banning open carry, hence still in violation of 9.68.

[jabeatty]

Don't get too happy. It's still invalid even with the "except as permitted by the Ohio Revised Code." caveat, since Open Carry is legal, because there is no ORC against it, but there is also no ORC that 'permits' it, so by default the sign is still banning open carry, hence still in violation of 9.68.

9.68 Right to bear arms - challenge to law.

(A) The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.

(C) As used in this section:

(1) The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition.

You don't get much more specific than that...

[Werz]

Don't get too happy. It's still invalid even with the "except as permitted by the Ohio Revised Code." caveat, since Open Carry is legal, because there is no ORC against it, but there is also no ORC that 'permits' it, so by default the sign is still banning open carry, hence still in violation of 9.68.

9.68 Right to bear arms - challenge to law.

(A) The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.

(C) As used in this section:

(1) The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition.

You don't get much more specific than that...

Exactly. And until OFCC, et al. v. Oberlin is resolved by full litigation, we should not get too excited about challenging poorly worded rules which may still pass muster.

[JustJack]

9.68 Right to bear arms - challenge to law.

(A) The individual right to keep and bear arms, being a fundamental individual right that predates the United States Constitution and Ohio Constitution, and being a constitutionally protected right in every part of Ohio, the general assembly finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state regulating the ownership, possession, purchase, other acquisition, transport, storage, carrying, sale, or other transfer of firearms, their components, and their ammunition. Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.

(C) As used in this section:

(1) The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition.

You don't get much more specific than that...

I've made that same argument elsewhere on this site and was told that I was (paraphrasing)"Wishfully interpreting"(paraphrasing) ORC 9.68.