mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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JustJack
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by JustJack »

BriKuz wrote:Clearfork dam may be, but not the rest...
Yeah, MWSY covered that earlier.
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:ACoE wouldn't allow shotguns and this ordinance has such an exception.
IANAL, YMMV, other standard disclaimers, yada, yada, yada, etc, ad nauseum, in infinitum.
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by Werz »

JustJack wrote:
BriKuz wrote:Clearfork dam may be, but not the rest...
Yeah, MWSY covered that earlier.
Oh, they take the dam seriously. Even several decades ago when some young idiot and his friends thought it would be a good idea to play on the spillway late at night. :oops:

Fortunately, no arrests were made.
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by NEO Carry »

Just spoke with the Law Directors office and they said they have reviewed the ordinance and passed them onto the City Council. They said they are under review with the city Council right now for either being changed or repealed and to keep checking the city website to find out exactly where that process was within council.

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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by BriKuz »

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I spoke with the law director yesterday... We DO need to keep our eye on this. Make sure it gets through the process quickly.

Also, I spoke with a rep in the police department. These laws are not supposed to be enforced, but we may want to do a records request to get info regarding actual training about not accosting carriers. It sounds to me as if there could still be some "inducing" or "disorderly" issues related to carry. I want to make sure that they realize that those are NOT charges that can be sustained against a lawful carrier.
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by Morne »

NEO Carry wrote:Just spoke with the Law Directors office and they said they have reviewed the ordinance and passed them onto the City Council. They said they are under review with the city Council right now for either being changed or repealed and to keep checking the city website to find out exactly where that process was within council.

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Good stuff!
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by JSLACK7851 »

507.02 AUTHORITY OF MAYOR.

(f) Prohibiting or restricting the sale, distribution, dispensing or giving away of any firearms or ammunition of any character whatsoever;

(g) Ordering the closing of any and all establishments or portions thereof engaged in the sale, distribution, dispensing or giving away of firearms and/or ammunition;

(h) Prohibiting or restricting the carrying or possession on the public streets or sidewalks or in any public park or square or any other public place a weapon or any object intended to be used as a weapon, including, but not limited to, firearms, bows and arrows, air rifles, sling shots, knives, razors, broken bottles, firebombs, missiles of any kind, clubs, blackjacks, billies, chains or similar items;
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by BriKuz »

JSLACK7851 wrote:507.02 AUTHORITY OF MAYOR.

(f) Prohibiting or restricting the sale, distribution, dispensing or giving away of any firearms or ammunition of any character whatsoever;

(g) Ordering the closing of any and all establishments or portions thereof engaged in the sale, distribution, dispensing or giving away of firearms and/or ammunition;

(h) Prohibiting or restricting the carrying or possession on the public streets or sidewalks or in any public park or square or any other public place a weapon or any object intended to be used as a weapon, including, but not limited to, firearms, bows and arrows, air rifles, sling shots, knives, razors, broken bottles, firebombs, missiles of any kind, clubs, blackjacks, billies, chains or similar items;
Is that the "emergency powers" thing that everyone seems to have? Also, i'm not sure that local subs have the right to pull this stuff, either
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by JustJack »

It is the "Authority of Mayor" in a "Civil Emergency", and there is ORC to back it, but the ORC is much more confined/directed as to the actual area under civil emergency/riot, whereas most of the municipal ordinances I've seen seem to indicate the entire city/town not just the affected area.
3761.16 Areas threatened by riot may be cordoned off.
The chief administrative officer of a political subdivision with police powers, when engaged in suppressing a riot or when there is a clear and present danger of a riot, may cordon off any area or areas threatened by the riot and prohibit persons from entering the cordoned off area or areas except when carrying on necessary and legitimate pursuits and may prohibit the sale, offering for sale, dispensing, or transportation of firearms or other dangerous weapons, ammunition, dynamite, or other dangerous explosives in, to, or from the cordoned off areas.

Effective Date: 07-01-1996
ETA: ORC Quote
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

ORC only mentions riot, not any other civil 'emergency'. And yes, only in a cordoned-off area, not the entire town.

IMHO, it is still regulating firearms at the local level and is in violation of 9.68. If they want to use the authority given them by the ORC, it is already there. They do NOT need to have that law on their own books.
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by rickt »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:IMHO, it is still regulating firearms at the local level and is in violation of 9.68. If they want to use the authority given them by the ORC, it is already there. They do NOT need to have that law on their own books.
I failed in trying to get my home town to address such an emergency ordinance. I guess I am not very persuasive. Maybe I'll resurrect the thread where I first talked about it.
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by JustJack »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:ORC only mentions riot, not any other civil 'emergency'. And yes, only in a cordoned-off area, not the entire town.

IMHO, it is still regulating firearms at the local level and is in violation of 9.68. If they want to use the authority given them by the ORC, it is already there. They do NOT need to have that law on their own books.
^This
rickt wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:IMHO, it is still regulating firearms at the local level and is in violation of 9.68. If they want to use the authority given them by the ORC, it is already there. They do NOT need to have that law on their own books.
I failed in trying to get my home town to address such an emergency ordinance. I guess I am not very persuasive. Maybe I'll resurrect the thread where I first talked about it.
Don't feel to bad about it rickt, my first attempt at correcting a bad law was this exact ordinance in my town. I haven't gotten anywhere yet either.
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by BriKuz »

Sent another e-mail... got this in response:
Mr. BriKuz,

I am happy to inform you that City Council will be considering amendments to Mansfield Codified Ordinances at the next Council meeting on April 15, 2014.

Ordinances 549.10, 549.11, and 971.02 will all be amended to be in constitutional compliance with Ohio Revised Code § 9.68. It is of utmost importance to the Law Director’s Office to be in compliance with the constitutional and statutory demands of the law of Ohio. We thank you very much for making us aware of these ordinances and their conflict with O.R.C. § 9.68.

Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns regarding the Codified Ordinances of the City of Mansfield, Ohio.


Christopher L. Brown
Deputy Law Director
30 N. Diamond Street
Mansfield, Ohio 44902
<Edit: Added my reply to Mr. Brown>
Mr. Brown,

Thank you for your reply. If I might make an unsolicited suggestion, it may be a good idea to do a quick run-through and make sure that I didn't miss anything that could violate R.C. 9.68. This tends to be a polarizing issue, and it would be, for lack of a better term, a pain in the butt to hash this issue out multiple times. For example, the City of Oberlin chose to remove 549.02 through 549.07, 549.10 and 549.12 (see conway-greene) of their Ordinances to simplify the process of keeping with State Law. These sections WERE legal until updated State Laws changed the relevant State sections, leaving a city in the situation of having to VERY closely monitor State Law changes to ensure that local copies of an ordinance do not run afoul of R.C. 9.68. This does NOT take away the ability of Law Enforcement and Prosecutors to charge a person for breaking these laws! It merely makes it necessary to charge under State Law as opposed to local ordinance.

Anyhow, thank you again for the reply, and I look forward to attending the Council Meeting on 15 April.

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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by BriKuz »

http://ci.mansfield.oh.us/council/Pendi ... -15-14.pdf

I don't have time to dig through and see if they missed anything... didn't make it to the meeting to see if it passed
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by BriKuz »

So, it was no-go last meeting... see below e-mail:

BriKuz,

Ordinances 549.10 and 971.02 were discussed in caucus and should be passed on Tuesday, May 6. I had originally planned to pass them at the last meeting (April 15), but I (and many Council members) received a lot of questions from the public about what the changes would mean for them. Because of all of those questions, I wanted to give the public one more meeting to be able to come in and ask questions.

Provided Council does not ask for any extensions, the ordinances should be updated on May 6.

Thank you very much for monitoring this and helping the City of Mansfield keep our ordinances up to date and in compliance with Ohio law,

Chris
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Re: mansfield "firearms possession illegal EVERYWHERE"

Post by Werz »

BriKuz wrote:Ordinances 549.10 and 971.02 were discussed in caucus and should be passed on Tuesday, May 6. I had originally planned to pass them at the last meeting (April 15), but I (and many Council members) received a lot of questions from the public about what the changes would mean for them. Because of all of those questions, I wanted to give the public one more meeting to be able to come in and ask questions.

Provided Council does not ask for any extensions, the ordinances should be updated on May 6.
Do you plan to go to the meeting on May 6th?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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