Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.
READ THIS BEFORE POSTING
This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.
READ THIS BEFORE POSTING
- BB62
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Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
Yesterday, 10/2/13, I was in Columbus at the Statehouse to take part in a counter-protest (organized on Facebook by Princess Amira Kuevor) to some people protesting passage of HB203 - part of which would remove the duty to retreat from Ohio’s use of force laws. I fully expected to be on the lawn & walkway during the counter-protest. While on the Statehouse grounds I had an “interesting” conversation with two state troopers, their superior, and the Executive Director of the Capitol Square Review and Advisory Board regarding my carrying of two holstered pistols...
I walked up to two state troopers near the steps on the west side (front) of the Capitol and asked to speak to their commanding officer about what I heard was an attempt to make the lawn off-limits to people carrying firearms.
One of the two troopers advised me that a) I wasn’t supposed to be there, b) that the best thing for me to do was to get off the property, c) that he was “Trying not to arrest me”, and d) when I stated my desire to be arrested (if that’s what it took), he said “There’s always one” – before he finally radioed for his superior.
When his superior arrived (a Lieutenant) and I repeated my question he stated that “Legally, being that it’s outside, we wouldn’t have any problem with it (carry on the grounds), but we have to go with what they (motioning to the CSRaAB people) say”.
After the Lt. approached the Director, the Director then approached me, I got his card, and he repeated the fact that it was legal, and added two additional pieces of information: 1) the garage is part of the building and is off-limits, and b) a “couple of years ago” the Attorney General “ruled” that the grounds were not off-limits.
I thanked the Director and left. Upon returning to the group of open-carrying activists at the northeast corner of the Statehouse property, Princess told me that earlier that day she had been informed that carry on the grounds was prohibited.
Oh, did I forget to mention that the entire conversation is on audiotape?
So…
QUESTIONS
1) If the Lt. knew that carry was legal, why did he defer to the CSRaAB to get an opinion?
2) If the Executive Director has known for at least a couple of years that carry was legal, why didn’t the Lt. and his officers know?
3) Who/why was Princess Amira Kuevor, who organized the counter-protest to the anti-Stand Your Ground people, told that carry on the lawn was illegal?
4) If the Executive Director has known for at least a couple of years that carry was legal, why does rule 10 still exist in Chapter 128-04-02 in the Ohio Administrative Code? http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/128-4-02
5) Is carry in the Statehouse garage legal or not?
6) Bottom line: Why was I threatened with arrest for doing something known to be legal??
CONCLUSION
If this doesn’t make the case for preemption with REAL (not baby) TEETH, then nothing does. Multiple parties in positions of authority and influence, RIGHT UNDER THE LEGLISLATOR’S NOSES, knew that something was legal, but 1) took no steps to change the administrative code, and 2) allowed their underlings to threaten a law-abiding citizen with arrest.
It is LOOOONG past time that ALL Ohio political subdivisions remove laws/rules/codes, etc. that conflict with 9.68 (and 2923.126), and the baby teeth I see in HB203 are simply not enough to make it happen. For guidance, I would suggest that Ohio adopt a hybrid of KY’s law (KRS 65.870) http://tinyurl.com/mwflmkk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or FL’s law (I don’t have a link)
Although I have plenty of ideas for how to proceed for maximum effect and benefit (for us & HB203) I will entertain all suggestions.
I walked up to two state troopers near the steps on the west side (front) of the Capitol and asked to speak to their commanding officer about what I heard was an attempt to make the lawn off-limits to people carrying firearms.
One of the two troopers advised me that a) I wasn’t supposed to be there, b) that the best thing for me to do was to get off the property, c) that he was “Trying not to arrest me”, and d) when I stated my desire to be arrested (if that’s what it took), he said “There’s always one” – before he finally radioed for his superior.
When his superior arrived (a Lieutenant) and I repeated my question he stated that “Legally, being that it’s outside, we wouldn’t have any problem with it (carry on the grounds), but we have to go with what they (motioning to the CSRaAB people) say”.
After the Lt. approached the Director, the Director then approached me, I got his card, and he repeated the fact that it was legal, and added two additional pieces of information: 1) the garage is part of the building and is off-limits, and b) a “couple of years ago” the Attorney General “ruled” that the grounds were not off-limits.
I thanked the Director and left. Upon returning to the group of open-carrying activists at the northeast corner of the Statehouse property, Princess told me that earlier that day she had been informed that carry on the grounds was prohibited.
Oh, did I forget to mention that the entire conversation is on audiotape?
So…
QUESTIONS
1) If the Lt. knew that carry was legal, why did he defer to the CSRaAB to get an opinion?
2) If the Executive Director has known for at least a couple of years that carry was legal, why didn’t the Lt. and his officers know?
3) Who/why was Princess Amira Kuevor, who organized the counter-protest to the anti-Stand Your Ground people, told that carry on the lawn was illegal?
4) If the Executive Director has known for at least a couple of years that carry was legal, why does rule 10 still exist in Chapter 128-04-02 in the Ohio Administrative Code? http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/128-4-02
5) Is carry in the Statehouse garage legal or not?
6) Bottom line: Why was I threatened with arrest for doing something known to be legal??
CONCLUSION
If this doesn’t make the case for preemption with REAL (not baby) TEETH, then nothing does. Multiple parties in positions of authority and influence, RIGHT UNDER THE LEGLISLATOR’S NOSES, knew that something was legal, but 1) took no steps to change the administrative code, and 2) allowed their underlings to threaten a law-abiding citizen with arrest.
It is LOOOONG past time that ALL Ohio political subdivisions remove laws/rules/codes, etc. that conflict with 9.68 (and 2923.126), and the baby teeth I see in HB203 are simply not enough to make it happen. For guidance, I would suggest that Ohio adopt a hybrid of KY’s law (KRS 65.870) http://tinyurl.com/mwflmkk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; or FL’s law (I don’t have a link)
Although I have plenty of ideas for how to proceed for maximum effect and benefit (for us & HB203) I will entertain all suggestions.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
I have no answers to your inquiries, but I do find it interesting that you asked a OSP Trooper to arrest you.
- BB62
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
LOLTweed Ring wrote:I have no answers to your inquiries, but I do find it interesting that you asked a OSP Trooper to arrest you.
"Interesting", eh?
I simply called his bluff.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
HB 495 "fixed" the State House parking garage issue. I am surprised that the law enforcement personnel did not know it.
- BB62
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
I've heard that, but am not sure where it is. Can you directly cite the relevant code section? Thanks!Tourist wrote:HB 495 "fixed" the State House parking garage issue...
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!!Tourist wrote:...I am surprised that the law enforcement personnel did not know it.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
Here is a link to the bill. It shows what was changed.BB62 wrote:I've heard that, but am not sure where it is. Can you directly cite the relevant code section? Thanks!Tourist wrote:HB 495 "fixed" the State House parking garage issue...
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!!Tourist wrote:...I am surprised that the law enforcement personnel did not know it.
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bill ... 129_HB_495" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- BB62
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
Thanks much!
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
(N) Any person may possess a firearm in a motor vehicle in the state underground parking garage at the state capitol building, if the person's possession of the firearm in the motor vehicle is not in violation of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code or any other provision of the Revised Code. Any person may store or leave a firearm in a locked motor vehicle that is parked in the state underground parking garage at the state capitol building, if the person's transportation and possession of the firearm in the motor vehicle while traveling to the garage was not in violation of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code or any other provision of the Revised Code.
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12GA. pump - Home defense
40 Cal. Main Carry
380 BUG
22lr Live fire practice
The Second Amendment is about the right to be able to protect oneself from all who would do us harm including Legislators!
I came into this world screaming and covered in someone Else's blood, don't care if I go out the same way
Everyone who receives the protection of society owes a return for the benefit. John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
(English economist & philosopher. 1806 - 1873)
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
"The only way that we'd arrest you is if you did something illegal."
Good work, BB62!
(As a side note, I wonder if a man of shorter stature, like myself, would've had a rougher time with them. I've noticed that there always seems to be that 'risk assessment' going on in the back of officers' mind. It's trained into them.)
Good work, BB62!
(As a side note, I wonder if a man of shorter stature, like myself, would've had a rougher time with them. I've noticed that there always seems to be that 'risk assessment' going on in the back of officers' mind. It's trained into them.)
Then, Sir, we will give them the bayonet! - Gen.Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it. - Gen. Robert E. Lee
If we must die, we die defending our rights. - Chief Sitting Bull
Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? - Plato
It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it. - Gen. Robert E. Lee
If we must die, we die defending our rights. - Chief Sitting Bull
Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? - Plato
- BB62
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
I never thought of that... But then I'm not nearly as tall without my cowboy hat...JmE wrote:...(As a side note, I wonder if a man of shorter stature, like myself, would've had a rougher time with them. I've noticed that there always seems to be that 'risk assessment' going on in the back of officers' mind. It's trained into them.)
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories ... -bill.html
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
Jeff: Are you sure you're not related??
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
"there is Gambling in this establishment!"BB62 wrote:I've heard that, but am not sure where it is. Can you directly cite the relevant code section? Thanks!Tourist wrote:HB 495 "fixed" the State House parking garage issue...
I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!!Tourist wrote:...I am surprised that the law enforcement personnel did not know it.
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
Funny, I saw the resemblance too!mreising wrote:Jeff: Are you sure you're not related??
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)
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Re: Ohio Statehouse property & garage - off limits?? Hmmm
Too bad I had to work yesterday. Wonder if he would have arrested a blind person. That would have been on the news for sure.