Middletown, Ohio Parks

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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tbrew85
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by tbrew85 »

Hmmm...Ive searched for this several times and couldnt find the pertinent ordinances until just now, and Im usually pretty good at internet searches. Thanks for the proper links.

Something else I found interesting in "Permits and authority":

(4) Any authorized persons may request identification of any person to ascertain identity or residence. Any person not complying with such request may be ordered to leave the park. No person shall fail to leave the park after being ordered to do so under this rule.

Doesnt seem proper to me without RAS. IANAL.

Also:
(4) Whoever violates § 1070.02(d)(1), (d)(2), (g)(1) or (g)(2) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree. A separate offense shall be deemed committed each day during or on which a violation or noncompliance occurs or continues.
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rtfowler99
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by rtfowler99 »

I haven't heard a peep from anyone since September 25th. I've tried contacting them weekly to check on the status with no success. Anyone else want to contact them as well? It will be more difficult for them to ignore multiple people.
BriKuz
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by BriKuz »

Middletown has some other issues...

The normal failure to update...
§ 672.04 (k) (7) UNLOADED. Any of the following:
A. No ammunition is in the firearm in question, and no ammunition is loaded into a magazine or speed loader that may be used with the firearm in question and that is located anywhere within the vehicle in question, without regard to where ammunition otherwise is located within the vehicle in question. For the purposes of division A. of this definition, ammunition held in stripper-clips or in en-bloc clips is not considered ammunition that is loaded into a magazine or speed loader.
I thought they couldn't regulate possesion, period... lol
§ 672.09 UNLAWFUL TRANSACTIONS IN WEAPONS.
(2) Possess any firearm or dangerous ordnance with purpose to dispose of it in violation of division (a)(1) of this section;
The whole frigging thing...
CHAPTER 820 FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION DEALERS
No guns near a parade, hunh?
§ 644.17 DANGEROUS WEAPONS.
(a) No person participating in, present at, or within 500 feet of, a parade, and while in a public place, shall possess a firearm or dangerous weapon of any kind.
(b) As used in this section, DANGEROUS WEAPON means any device designed or capable of being used to inflict serious injury upon a person or property, including, but not limited to, firearms , knives of any kind having a blade in excess of three inches in length, razors and razor blades, metallic knuckles, clubs, blackjacks and night sticks, mace, dynamite cartridges, bombs, grenades, mines and other powerful explosives and loaded canes. As used in this section, CLUB. includes any metal pipe or rod of any thickness and any wooden instrument or device thicker than one inch or wider than three-fourths of an inch.
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

rtfowler99 wrote:I haven't heard a peep from anyone since September 25th. I've tried contacting them weekly to check on the status with no success. Anyone else want to contact them as well? It will be more difficult for them to ignore multiple people.
Who have you been trying to contact and how? Let us know so we can try something different.
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rtfowler99
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by rtfowler99 »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Who have you been trying to contact and how? Let us know so we can try something different.
I emailed the city council members and received a response from Josh Laubach. He said he would contact the law director. I haven't been able to get a response from him since.
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

I left a late night voicemail for council. We'll see if they call me back.

I would focus on getting Middletown to amend ordinance 644.17 (No firearms near parades) and repeal all of Chapter 820 (firearms & ammo licensing).

Then I would focus on 1070.02 and out-of-date ordinances like 672.04.
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NEO Carry
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by NEO Carry »

No IANAL, but the one ordinance in question (have not had a chance to look at the others) seems to still follow state law...

"1070.02 PROHIBITED CONDUCT.
(g) Firearms and weapons.
(1) No person shall possess or discharge any fireworks, explosives or model rockets in any park.
(2) No person shall possess within any park area any deadly weapon, except as otherwise specifically permitted by law. The supervised use of bow and arrows is permissible in parks only through recreation programs sponsored by the City of Middletown."

Their is no "firearm" terminology in there... They use the term deadly weapon, which covers way more than just a firearm, such as knives. They then specifically excempt any deadly weapons permitted by law which to me means fireamrs since they are permitted by state law. like I said, IANAL, but this one seems to still be compliant.
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by JustJack »

IANAL either, but IMHO, usually when they throw the 'except as otherwise specifically permitted by law' thing in, to them it means "except if you're law enforcement or a government agent of some kind who has permission and authority to carry a firearm". Just my $0.02.
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by JustaShooter »

Certainly I don't like the section title "(g) Firearms and weapons" but I think that is less an issue than the "any deadly weapon, except as otherwise specifically permitted by law" wording.
Open carry is not "specifically authorized by law", correct? If that is the case, then it appears to prohibit open carry, and thus violates 9.68.
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JustJack
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by JustJack »

JustaShooter wrote:Open carry is not "specifically authorized by law", correct? If that is the case, then it appears to prohibit open carry, and thus violates 9.68.
^+1 Good catch!
IANAL, YMMV, other standard disclaimers, yada, yada, yada, etc, ad nauseum, in infinitum.
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BriKuz
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by BriKuz »

NEO Carry wrote:No IANAL, but the one ordinance in question (have not had a chance to look at the others) seems to still follow state law...

"1070.02 PROHIBITED CONDUCT.
(g) Firearms and weapons.
(1) No person shall possess or discharge any fireworks, explosives or model rockets in any park.
(2) No person shall possess within any park area any deadly weapon, except as otherwise specifically permitted by law. The supervised use of bow and arrows is permissible in parks only through recreation programs sponsored by the City of Middletown."

Their is no "firearm" terminology in there... They use the term deadly weapon, which covers way more than just a firearm, such as knives. They then specifically excempt any deadly weapons permitted by law which to me means fireamrs since they are permitted by state law. like I said, IANAL, but this one seems to still be compliant.
there is NO SPECIFIC authorization for a non-CHL holder to carry a firearm... the authorization comes from natural right, unimpeded (except in specific circumstances) to carry a firearm for self defense. ANY ordinance which prohibits the carry of firearms "unless authorized" is against 9.68 and unenforceable.

EDIT: Sorry, Justa beat me to it...
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by JustaShooter »

BriKuz wrote:Sorry, Justa beat me to it...
No need to be sorry, good to have confirmation of my thought processes.
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by NEO Carry »

9.68 kind of does allow for the open carry of firearms, unless I am just reading it wrong, which could be.

"(1) The possession, transporting, or carrying of firearms, their components, or their ammunition include, but are not limited to, the possession, transporting, or carrying, openly or concealed on a person's person or concealed ready at hand, of firearms, their components, or their ammunition."

How I was reading it, it specifically states that right there, therefore "except as otherwise specifically permitted by law" would apply to ANY carry of firearms, openly or concealed. I might have messed up reading the wording, but that is how I took it. Is this talking about just transporting? How do they define carrying?
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idoncare
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by idoncare »

Looks as though they are defining "carrying" as " openly or concealed". IANAL, but that seems to be a pretty common sense definition, IMHO.
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Re: Middletown, Ohio Parks

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

How about this:

Are they a public entity? Yes.

Does their definition of deadly weapon include firearms? Yes.

Do they restrict firearms in any way? Yes.

They are in violation.

They CAN NOT restrict firearms. Restricting, AND THEN granting an exemption of some kind, is still a restriction.
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