Green Township Parks (Cincy)

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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rtfowler99
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Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by rtfowler99 »

I was looking at the Rules & Regulations of the parks that I frequent and came across the language below in regards to Green Township parks:

10. No person, except authorized employees or agents of the Board, law enforcement authorities, licensed conceal carry permit holders in full compliance with RC 2923.16, shall carry or have in their possession firearms of any description, pellet gun, paint ball gun, air rifle, slingshot, or other missile throwing device including archery equipment.

http://www.greentwp.org/Green%20Townshi ... ations.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In reading this I don't see that it explicitly states that OC is prohibited, however I believe that OC would be prohibited if you did not have a CHL. Should I contact them to get clarification?
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DontTreadOnMe
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

rtfowler99 wrote:10. No person, except authorized employees or agents of the Board, law enforcement authorities, licensed conceal carry permit holders in full compliance with RC 2923.16, shall carry or have in their possession firearms of any description, pellet gun, paint ball gun, air rifle, slingshot, or other missile throwing device including archery equipment.
So does that also mean I'd have to be in my car at all times in the park? (RC 2923.16 is Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle)
BriKuz
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by BriKuz »

Well, they DO allow a CHL holder to have a box or a pellet gun! ;-)

This one's bad, needs changed...
rtfowler99
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by rtfowler99 »

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
rtfowler99 wrote:10. No person, except authorized employees or agents of the Board, law enforcement authorities, licensed conceal carry permit holders in full compliance with RC 2923.16, shall carry or have in their possession firearms of any description, pellet gun, paint ball gun, air rifle, slingshot, or other missile throwing device including archery equipment.
So does that also mean I'd have to be in my car at all times in the park? (RC 2923.16 is Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle)

My fault, I mis-typed some of the language, here is what it should say:

"In full compliance with RC 2923.125 or 2913.1213, or motor vehicle operators in full compliance with RC 2923.16"
rtfowler99
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by rtfowler99 »

BriKuz wrote:Well, they DO allow a CHL holder to have a box or a pellet gun! ;-)

This one's bad, needs changed...
I'm willing to take the time and effort to contact them, I just need some guidance as to what to say. Any help is appreciated.
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

If it is a township owned park, they can have NO rules against firearms, not even the discharge of a firearm as per ORC 504.04.

ORC 9.68 lets you sue them and win.

Tell them that.

:mrgreen:
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OhioPaints
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by OhioPaints »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If it is a township owned park, they can have NO rules against firearms, not even the discharge of a firearm as per ORC 504.04.

ORC 9.68 lets you sue them and win.

Tell them that.

:mrgreen:
??? So we could use any township park as a shooting range? :shock:
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by Brian D. »

OhioPaints wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If it is a township owned park, they can have NO rules against firearms, not even the discharge of a firearm as per ORC 504.04.

ORC 9.68 lets you sue them and win.

Tell them that.

:mrgreen:
??? So we could use any township park as a shooting range? :shock:
I think they'd find one or more other charges to hang on someone who was shooting in a park that didn't feature a range.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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BB62
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by BB62 »

Since I live close, I'll write them a note and post the results of my communications.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by cashman966 »

Brian D. wrote:
OhioPaints wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If it is a township owned park, they can have NO rules against firearms, not even the discharge of a firearm as per ORC 504.04.

ORC 9.68 lets you sue them and win.

Tell them that.

:mrgreen:
??? So we could use any township park as a shooting range? :shock:
I think they'd find one or more other charges to hang on someone who was shooting in a park that didn't feature a range.
Like 2923.162(A)(2)
2923.162 Discharge of firearm on or near prohibited premises.

(A) No person shall do any of the following:

(2) Subject to division (B)(2) of this section, discharge a firearm on a lawn, park, pleasure ground, orchard, or other ground appurtenant to a schoolhouse, church, or inhabited dwelling, the property of another, or a charitable institution;
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by mreising »

But my range is my "pleasure ground".
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by cashman966 »

mreising wrote:But my range is my "pleasure ground".
You're covered by the exemption in (B)(2) :wink:
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.

Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit

IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Here is an email reply to a park district official that tried to use 2923.162 because their parks were 'adjacent' to 'inhabited dwellings'...
Regarding 2923.162, your attorney should find the definition of 'appurtenant' means more than just adjacent. It also means 'belonging to' or 'a part of'. The General Assembly uses specific words for specific meanings. If they meant adjacent, they would have used the word 'adjacent'. Your attorney may refer to Cohen v Whitcomb, (1919 142 Minn 20) where the Supreme Court of Minnesota adopted the following definition of an appurtenance: "That which belongs to something else. Something annexed to another thing more worthy." He can also check any legal dictionary.

If a church owns two adjacent parcels of property, builds their church building on one parcel and a park on the other parcel, that park IS appurtenant to the church.

If a city builds a park on city-owned land next to a church, the park is adjacent to the church, but NOT appurtenant to the church.

ORC 2923.162(A)(2) deals with ground appurtenant to a schoolhouse, church, or inhabited dwelling, the property of another, or a charitable institution. As far as the [park district] is not a schoolhouse, church, dwelling or charitable institution, ORC 2923.162 does not apply.

Regarding "the property of another", I stated that this would refer to a private entity, not a public entity. Any land owned by a public entity belongs to the people. ORC 2923.162(B)(1) exempts any person "while on the person's own land".

Let me reaffirm that, regarding Section 5d of your park rules, ORC 2923.162 is irrelevant and does not apply. You can restrict firearm discharge in a city park, but not a township park. ORC 504.04 restricts townships from doing so. Just because a township has turned over management of a park to a park district, as long as that park belongs to a township, 504.04 applies.

Of course, I am not a lawyer.

-"MWSY"
This park district is revising their rules.
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rtfowler99
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by rtfowler99 »

Response from Green Township Trustee Dave Linnenberg:
i know we removed the restriction and allow people with concealed carry permits to have firearms in the parks. We adjusted all our park signs to express that change. I'm not sure about the open carry. I'll forward all of this to Frank Hyle.
Thanks,
rtfowler99
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Re: Green Township Parks (Cincy)

Post by rtfowler99 »

Another response from Green Township. Is there anything I should respond back to them with? Without knowing the proposed wording of the change I'm not sure what to say.
Mr xxx,

We are looking at revising or eliminating Rule #10 & #11 so it complies with Ohio’s “open carry”, as well as township “home rule” provisions. Our law director is reviewing all rules, including Chapter 504 and Park Rules Section 511.32. We hope to have clarification and changes out to the public very soon.

I'll let you know ( when I know) what going on with this important issue.
Thanks for your concern.

Tony Rosiello,
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