Fairview Park

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Forum rules
This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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rickt
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Fairview Park

Post by rickt »

Since there has been a lot of talk about various city ordinances lately, I thought I would bring up one that is particularly egregious.

See section 553 for all this.

http://www.fairviewpark.org/uploads/1/7 ... fenses.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

553.02 Concealed carry looks legit but what about OC?

553.03 You need a license from the Chief of Police if you want to sell any concealable weapon.

553.05 Any sales of weapons needs to be reported to the Chief of Police within 24 hours.

553.08 Any sale, barter or gift of handgun ammo has to be reported to the Chief of Police within 30 days.

553.09 You need a purchase permit to buy any concealable weapons.

553.11 Lost or stolen firearms must be reported to Chief of Police.

553.13 Firearm confiscation procedures.

There must be a lot of lawbreakers in Fairview Park. I am not a resident but I checked the ordinances since I shop and commute to work through the city.
BriKuz
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by BriKuz »

Wow, there's all SORTS of wrongs in there... we're gonna have to sit down and really look at this, as there's a LOT that needs to be changed... or do we inform the law director, and let HIM find all the mistakes, the check his work???
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wkdravenna
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by wkdravenna »

You should report someone you know for being gifted ammo and not reporting it..

Then see what happens. . Just for a scentific experiment. Then you should also go down to the police station and ask to inform the chief that you purchased a box of ammo.. If everyone did this, they would loose their minds.

This sort of reminds me of the relationship between a 10 year old boy and his parents. You have to be home by 8:30 !
My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. - JFK
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

wkdravenna wrote:...This sort of reminds me of the relationship between a 10 year old boy and his parents. You have to be home by 8:30 !
Ooh. That's a baaad analogy. It means that I'm the 10 year old who waves at his parents with less than all of his fingers! :shock:

:mrgreen:
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pirateguy191
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by pirateguy191 »

steves 50de lives in Fairview Park. :twisted:
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Maybe steves can ask the city council if they have seen all the attention that Oberlin has been getting.

:twisted:

Who wants to work on this one? Any volunteers?
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addictedkoala
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by addictedkoala »

I live in Fairview and sent an email off to my councilman on the 7th. I got a response the same day and he said he referred it to our city's law department. No idea how these things usually go down but I saw the thread so I thought I'd mention it.
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Welcome to the forum and thanks for getting involved!

Can you post a copy of what you sent?

You will want to follow up with them in a week or two if you don't hear back. I usually wait 30 days, but I'm not as patient with cities around Cleveland.
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addictedkoala
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by addictedkoala »

(9/7/13) Email to my councilman:
It has come to my attention that the Fairview Park Codified Ordinance 553.09 requires that Fairview Park residents obtain a permit to purchase any "concealable" pistol, revolver, etc. While it is this specific ordinance that concerns me, it also appears that much of section 553 deals with purchasing, transferring, and ownership of firearms and is not in line with the current Ohio Revised Code. This should be a concern for our city because ORC 9.68 provides preemption of local firearm laws and failing to conform to this preemption may open the city to expensive lawsuits.

ORC 9.68:
*snip*

It appears that most of section 553 in Fairview's codified ordinances is in conflict with state law. Were someone to be arrested under one of these ordinances, such as selling handgun ammunition without sending records to the chief of police (553.08), then not only would the ordinances be unenforceable, but the city would be responsible for the court costs of the arrested individual. I am concerned because this has become a problem for some other cities, most notably Cleveland in Cleveland vs State of Ohio (2010) when Ohio's Supreme Court upheld state preemption.

Thank you very much for your service to the city council and I hope this matter can be settled easily and promptly."

Response
"Thank you for the e-mail. I referred this to our law department to review."


(9/16/13) My email to law director:
"About a week ago I emailed my councilman (Brian McDonough) about the conflict between Fairview's gun control ordinances in section 553 and the ORC per state preemption under ORC 9.68. He said he forwarded the issue to the law department. I realize you are busy people and am not trying to be a pest, but I was just wondering if there was an update to the situation, whether you'll recommend the ordinances be changed/repealed, etc. If not at what point might a decision be made? Thank you for you service to Fairview Park and your consideration."

Response:
"Thank you for your email. We are reviewing the question and the ordinances and expect to make a decision and recommendation shortly. In the meantime, our ordinance, to the extent it is in conflict with state law, will not be enforced. Thank you for your kind words."
BriKuz
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by BriKuz »

looks like there is SOMETHING happening with this...

http://www.cleveland.com/fairview-park/ ... e_upd.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

has anyone else been following up?
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by CousinCarl »

Thanks for starting this!

http://www.cleveland.com/fairview-park/ ... rs_de.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get a load of the photo of the 2 revolvers.

And the BIG debate involves Council not really wanting to vote on it but to have their contractor in charge of making sure their ordinances are current change the wording. So who needs a Council?

And the big dodge -----
“It sickens me to think that I’m going to vote and support a law that says, ‘Yes, please bring your weapons into the park,’” she said. “It’s just unacceptable to me. I would prefer not to have to vote on this. So, we should get it done the way it’s supposed to be done (by Drane).” -Peggy Cleary, at-large representative.
"Who is John Galt?"

"So this is how freedom dies --- with thunderous applause."
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Werz
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by Werz »

CousinCarl wrote:“It sickens me to think that I’m going to vote and support a law that says, ‘Yes, please bring your weapons into the park,’” she said. “It’s just unacceptable to me. I would prefer not to have to vote on this. So, we should get it done the way it’s supposed to be done (by Drane).” -Peggy Cleary, at-large representative.
That's not going to happen. An Oberlin councilman complained about the same thing. Not only did he dislike having to change their ordinance, but he was also upset that the municipal code service had not told them that their ordinances were contrary to Ohio statute. But that's not what those services do.

Most municipal codes have numerous ordinances which parrot the misdemeanor and traffic violations in the Ohio Revised Code. The municipalities charge people under those ordinances - instead of under the Ohio Revised Code - so the municipality can collect the fine money. They have to be careful, because if the judge imposes jail time, the municipality is also be assessed the cost of incarceration.

When different sections of the Ohio Revised Code change, the municipal code services change the corresponding ordinances to reflect those changes. A package of updated ordinances will then be submitted to the council for a single vote. That's all the municipal code services do in terms of amending the individual codes.

I'm pretty sure the contracts with those services do not include an agreement to review each municipal code for violations of the United States and Ohio Constitutions, nor would they agree to review each municipality's code for compliance with a comprehensive preemption statute like R.C. 9.68.

But shifting the blame for an unpopular decision of council is always popular. "Hey, we didn't have a choice! Our code service told us we had to do it!"
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Werz wrote:...

But shifting the blame for an unpopular decision of council is always popular. "Hey, we didn't have a choice! Our code service told us we had to do it!"
This is what I don't understand about comments I've heard from council members around the state, from Oberlin to Cincinnati.

"We don't want to appear soft on guns."

Okay, you have a perfect way to save face. Blame the state. They deserve the blame. They are the one's who enacted 9.68.

"We'll have to discuss this in council."

No. No, you won't. You just need to change your ordinances to comply with a general law of the state AND you should pass it as an emergency to avoid lawsuits.

Just admit the truth. Aren't politicians still able to tell the truth, especially if it helps their case?

If a citizen asks why you made the change, just say, honestly, "THE STATE MADE US DO IT."
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Re: Fairview Park

Post by brian0918 »

Ironically I was friends a few years back with the son of a former long-standing city council member there, and he (the council member) had a huge collection of firearms, and even a makeshift shooting range in the basement.
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