Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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techguy85
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by techguy85 »

But then you introduce the complexity of R.C. 9.68 which specifically states that no political subdivision can deny you permission to carry a firearm on your person unless specifically provided by the U.S. constitution, Ohio Constitution, or state law.
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by JediSkipdogg »

techguy85 wrote:But then you introduce the complexity of R.C. 9.68 which specifically states that no political subdivision can deny you permission to carry a firearm on your person unless specifically provided by the U.S. constitution, Ohio Constitution, or state law.
How's that complex? When it's hard to say what how a barn falls into a shelter? I don't even see this as a 9.68 item, just a "how the heck do we interpret the ORC issue."
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

First, for the open carriers, trespass is NOT an option.

If the building is public, it is owned by the People.

We the People cannot be trespassed from our own property.

Not legally, at least.


Second, I'm not going to fight the battle of the barns...yet.

2923.126(G)(3)(a) still defines a gubment facility as:
A building or part of a building that is owned or leased by the government of this state or a political subdivision of this state and where employees of the government of this state or the political subdivision regularly are present for the purpose of performing their official duties as employees of the state or political subdivision
If a state employee shows up once a month to empty the trash, he 'regularly' is 'present'.

Because of that, if it's not referred to as a 'shelter', 'shelter house', or something just as obvious, it would be an uphill battle.

I'm gonna work on fixxing the open areas of the state, then go after the buildings.
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by djthomas »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:We the People cannot be trespassed from our own property.

Not legally, at least.
Division (B) of the criminal trespass statute (2911.21) seems to disagree.
(B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency.
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by JediSkipdogg »

djthomas wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:We the People cannot be trespassed from our own property.

Not legally, at least.
Division (B) of the criminal trespass statute (2911.21) seems to disagree.
(B) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency.
That's what I was thinking, otherwise, how would any of the "After Hours in the Park" citations ever fly. They are just a technical name version of a trespass, nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:First, for the open carriers, trespass is NOT an option.

If the building is public, it is owned by the People.

We the People cannot be trespassed from our own property.

Not legally, at least.
Be sure to explain that to the judge during sentencing. It'll probably help a lot :wink:
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by techguy85 »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
techguy85 wrote:But then you introduce the complexity of R.C. 9.68 which specifically states that no political subdivision can deny you permission to carry a firearm on your person unless specifically provided by the U.S. constitution, Ohio Constitution, or state law.
How's that complex? When it's hard to say what how a barn falls into a shelter? I don't even see this as a 9.68 item, just a "how the heck do we interpret the ORC issue."
I was mosty referring to open carry. Does a political subdivision have the ability to prevent you from open carrying in a government building, given that ORC doesn't seem to say carrying openly in a government building is illegal?
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

My statement was overbroad. Yes, the public CAN be trespassed from a public place IF you lack privilege.
2911.21 Criminal trespass.

(A) No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following:
A public place can have posted rules of access and hours of operation that removes your privilege.

Concealed carriers have that privilege (right?) removed by CPZ signs. Open carriers do not.


Basically, where and when an unarmed member of the public is allowed to go, with about 5 exceptions, an open carrier is allowed to go.
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

techguy85 wrote:I was mosty referring to open carry. Does a political subdivision have the ability to prevent you from open carrying in a government building, given that ORC doesn't seem to say carrying openly in a government building is illegal?
No. THAT is specifically what ORC 9.68 is about. It is also the ONLY statute in the entire Revised Code that mentions, and protects, open carry.
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by BriKuz »

unfortunately, without money for a good lawyer, it will be hard to fight a court case up to the Ohio Supreme Court to verify this right... as was said earlier, you might win the war, but you'll likely still take a ride... unfortunately...
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

That's okay. I hear cop cars have air conditioning. :mrgreen:

:roll:
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by schmieg »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
2923.126(G)(3)(a) still defines a gubment facility as:
A building or part of a building that is owned or leased by the government of this state or a political subdivision of this state and where employees of the government of this state or the political subdivision regularly are present for the purpose of performing their official duties as employees of the state or political subdivision
If a state employee shows up once a month to empty the trash, he 'regularly' is 'present'.
.
He might be; it depends on which definition of "regularly" that the court ultimately decides to use.
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Re: Definition of a "shelter" under ORC...

Post by Chuck »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:I'm gonna work on fixxing the open areas of the state, then go after the buildings.
^^THIS^^
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