County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

A sub-forum for the purpose of discussing ORC 9.68 compliance. This sub-forum is strictly for the discussion of progress in individual cities and their respective parks.

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This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.

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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by BB62 »

Nice work JmE!

Now, on to the next challenge!
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by Suckerspawn »

I found this in the Miami County Ag Society's Rules.

29. It is illegal to carry a firearm,
deadly weapon, or dangerous ordnance
anywhere on these premises. No
person shall knowingly possess, have
under the person's control, convey, or
attempt to convey a deadly weapon or
dangerous ordnance onto these premises.

I have contacted them regarding ORC 9.68
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Even when the fairs are over, keep after the Ag. Societies to take down invalid signage, and don't forget to check on them prior to next year's fair. Thet WILL try to sneak them back up.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by propertymanager »

This fair issue has been going on since 2009 and nothing (that would have a statewide impact) has been done to put a stop to it. Is anyone interested in pooling resources and filing a lawsuit? I will make a significant contribution and maybe we can get some help from one or more of the gun organizations. Please let me know if you're interested in doing some serious work on this issue.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by schmieg »

propertymanager wrote:This fair issue has been going on since 2009 and nothing (that would have a statewide impact) has been done to put a stop to it. Is anyone interested in pooling resources and filing a lawsuit? I will make a significant contribution and maybe we can get some help from one or more of the gun organizations. Please let me know if you're interested in doing some serious work on this issue.
There are several problems with doing that at this time based upon language in the ORC and in the lack of teeth in 9.68. This, unfortunately, is probably something we could better deal with legislatively.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by pleasantguywhopacks »

schmieg wrote:
propertymanager wrote:This fair issue has been going on since 2009 and nothing (that would have a statewide impact) has been done to put a stop to it. Is anyone interested in pooling resources and filing a lawsuit? I will make a significant contribution and maybe we can get some help from one or more of the gun organizations. Please let me know if you're interested in doing some serious work on this issue.
There are several problems with doing that at this time based upon language in the ORC and in the lack of teeth in 9.68. This, unfortunately, is probably something we could better deal with legislatively.
What are the chances of giving teeth to 9.68 as a possible amendment to one of the current pro gun bills?
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by schmieg »

pleasantguywhopacks wrote:
schmieg wrote:
propertymanager wrote:This fair issue has been going on since 2009 and nothing (that would have a statewide impact) has been done to put a stop to it. Is anyone interested in pooling resources and filing a lawsuit? I will make a significant contribution and maybe we can get some help from one or more of the gun organizations. Please let me know if you're interested in doing some serious work on this issue.
There are several problems with doing that at this time based upon language in the ORC and in the lack of teeth in 9.68. This, unfortunately, is probably something we could better deal with legislatively.
What are the chances of giving teeth to 9.68 as a possible amendment to one of the current pro gun bills?
Stay tuned.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Suing and winning against one Ag. Society may help prod the rest into compliance.

However, Cleveland still has bad gun laws on their books, even after Cleveland v. State.

ORC 9.68 allows for costs and reasonable attorney fees. Unless you find a judge willing to award punitive damages, that ain't much.

Yes, I am interested in creating, if not filing, a lawsuit against any Ag. Society that posts their fairgrounds.

Between ORC 1711.13 and the Ohio Supreme Court decision in Greene Cty. Agricultural Soc. v. Liming, 89 Ohio St.3d 551,
we know that these groups are subject to ORC 9.68.

Let's see if Ross County responds to the info people have been sending them. I may take my daughter to the fair today. It's only 40 miles away.
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Post by schmieg »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Suing and winning against one Ag. Society may help prod the rest into compliance.

However, Cleveland still has bad gun laws on their books, even after Cleveland v. State.

ORC 9.68 allows for costs and reasonable attorney fees. Unless you find a judge willing to award punitive damages, that ain't much.

Yes, I am interested in creating, if not filing, a lawsuit against any Ag. Society that posts their fairgrounds.

Between ORC 1711.13 and the Ohio Supreme Court decision in Greene Cty. Agricultural Soc. v. Liming, 89 Ohio St.3d 551,
we know that these groups are subject to ORC 9.68.

Let's see if Ross County responds to the info people have been sending them. I may take my daughter to the fair today. It's only 40 miles away.
The problem goes beyond 9.68. If you look at 2923.1212(A)(9) which directs who shall post signs, you will see where it says:
The officer of this state or of a political subdivision of this state, or the officer’s designee, who has charge of a building that is a government facility of this state or the political subdivision of this state, as defined in section 2923.126 of the Revised Code, and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility, or on property used, leased or owned by an agricultural society as defined in section 1711.01 and 1711.02 of the Revised Code, and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of that section.
This indicates that we need to revise more than just 9.68.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by propertymanager »

I looked up 2923.1212(A)(9) on lawwriter and it says:

(9) The officer of this state or of a political subdivision of this state, or the officer's designee, who has charge of a building that is a government facility of this state or the political subdivision of this state, as defined in section 2923.126 of the Revised Code, and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of that section.

It doesn't say anything about agricultural societies. What's the difference between this version and yours?
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propertymanager wrote:I looked up 2923.1212(A)(9) on lawwriter and it says:

(9) The officer of this state or of a political subdivision of this state, or the officer's designee, who has charge of a building that is a government facility of this state or the political subdivision of this state, as defined in section 2923.126 of the Revised Code, and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of that section.

It doesn't say anything about agricultural societies. What's the difference between this version and yours?
The difference is I was using a copy on my system that was changed in 2008 which I had failed to update. (I retired in 2007, so I probably missed that one). I just checked it against CaseMaker and your version is correct. Good call. Ok, we're back to 9.68 needing to be changed. Hold your breath for the legislature to come back and see what happens.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by Werz »

schmieg wrote:
propertymanager wrote:I looked up 2923.1212(A)(9) on lawwriter and it says:

(9) The officer of this state or of a political subdivision of this state, or the officer's designee, who has charge of a building that is a government facility of this state or the political subdivision of this state, as defined in section 2923.126 of the Revised Code, and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of that section.

It doesn't say anything about agricultural societies. What's the difference between this version and yours?
The difference is I was using a copy on my system that was changed in 2008 which I had failed to update. (I retired in 2007, so I probably missed that one). I just checked it against CaseMaker and your version is correct. Good call. Ok, we're back to 9.68 needing to be changed. Hold your breath for the legislature to come back and see what happens.
I'm still trying to figure out where you got the version you quoted. As nearly as I can tell, R.C. 2923.126(A)(9) went from "Any building that is owned by this state or any political subdivision of this state" to the current version with 127 SB 184, effective 09/09/2008, and hasn't changed since then. When was there ever a "fairgrounds exception"?
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by schmieg »

Werz wrote:
schmieg wrote:
propertymanager wrote:I looked up 2923.1212(A)(9) on lawwriter and it says:

(9) The officer of this state or of a political subdivision of this state, or the officer's designee, who has charge of a building that is a government facility of this state or the political subdivision of this state, as defined in section 2923.126 of the Revised Code, and that is not a building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility and is not a courthouse or other building or structure in which a courtroom is located that is subject to division (B)(3) of that section.

It doesn't say anything about agricultural societies. What's the difference between this version and yours?
The difference is I was using a copy on my system that was changed in 2008 which I had failed to update. (I retired in 2007, so I probably missed that one). I just checked it against CaseMaker and your version is correct. Good call. Ok, we're back to 9.68 needing to be changed. Hold your breath for the legislature to come back and see what happens.
I'm still trying to figure out where you got the version you quoted. As nearly as I can tell, R.C. 2923.126(A)(9) went from "Any building that is owned by this state or any political subdivision of this state" to the current version with 127 SB 184, effective 09/09/2008, and hasn't changed since then. When was there ever a "fairgrounds exception"?
Any more, I'm not sure. I downloaded a bunch of stuff as the laws were passed to have them on my system. I thought I was keeping it all up to date, but, now, I'm not sure, so I' going back to using CaseMaker, though it takes more time.

Since retiring, I have found I miss a lot of the software I had on my systems while practicing, but I can't justify the expense to keep it updated since I'm not making any money off it. I did for a while, but that got pretty old pretty fast. I really missed Perfect Probate while doing my mother-in-law's estate last year.
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Are these options better for the ORC than just searching at http://codes.ohio.gov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
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Re: County Fair Issues: READ THIS and POST HERE ONLY!

Post by Werz »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Are these options better for the ORC than just searching at http://codes.ohio.gov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Some attorneys use that, but Casemaker has Revised Code, case law, AG opinions, court rules, jury instructions, etc., and it's all cross-referenced by hyperlinks. Also, in situations like this one, it has Revised Code archives with former versions of the statutes. It also provides access to statutes and case law from other states, plus federal materials.

However, you need an Ohio State Bar Association membership.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
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