I'm seeing some confusion here about what ORC 9.68 compliance means so here is my valiant attempt at clarifying. Please let me know if I made any errors (or if I actually muddied the waters).
First of all, it doesn't apply to the posting of signs in state facilities. Signs in state highway restrooms, parking garages or other facilities has nothing to do with ORC 9.68.
ORC 9.68 says that only the state can regulate firearms ownership, carrying, transportation, storage, possession and transfer. The only thing left to cities is zoning of commercial sales and zoning of retail establishments. Cities can still regulate the discharge of a firearm. That's about it.
The state authorizes political subdivisions to post "no guns" signs on certain types of buildings. Counties, cities, libraries, regional transit authorities and county agricultural societies are all political subdivisions. The only type of building they are authorized to post are "government facilities". The definition of "government facility" is not completely clear. If government employees show up for work at that building every weekday, you can be sure that building is legally posted.
What is clear is that the law specifically says that a "building that is used primarily as a shelter, restroom, parking facility for motor vehicles, or rest facility" cannot be posted (unless they share the building with a courtroom). Those buildings used to be legally posted, so you may see signs still up where either they don't know the law has changed or they are just dragging their feet about removing the sign because they are anti-gun.
If a political subdivision of the state has posted anything other then a building, that posting is not authorized by law. City parks and parking lots, county fairgrounds, city or RTA buses are all examples of places that political subdivisions are not authorized to post.
Since only the state can regulate ownership, carrying, transportation, etc., any city ordinance regulating those things is no longer valid. City gun registration, assault weapons bans, open carry bans, Saturday night special bans, child safety lock requirements are all examples of defunct city ordinances.
ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
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Forum rules
This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.
READ THIS BEFORE POSTING
This sub-forum is strictly for the purpose of submitting of, and status updates related to, ORC 9.68 compliance. This could mean park bans, open carry bans, or anything that is a compliance issue. Note the format in which original threads were created. We'll track each individual case here and post updates if assistance is needed, etc. You may start a new thread here to notify us of a non-compliant scenario. Please try to research contact information for each city, village, etc, Email, fax, and postal addresses are great. Digital photos of infractions (Signs) are ideal. With limited exceptions this is NOT a discussion forum.
READ THIS BEFORE POSTING
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
Rick, this is a great post.
My only point would be that a city isn't authorized, its more of a "you shall post this sign". Also, not that its relevant, but if a building isn't posted and is still a government building it doesn't matter that it wasn't posted, its still prohibited. Would you agree with that conclusion?
Good separation of HB347 / SB184 aspects of the RC. We could put someone on these full time for a few months.
My only point would be that a city isn't authorized, its more of a "you shall post this sign". Also, not that its relevant, but if a building isn't posted and is still a government building it doesn't matter that it wasn't posted, its still prohibited. Would you agree with that conclusion?
Good separation of HB347 / SB184 aspects of the RC. We could put someone on these full time for a few months.
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Contrary to a popular belief when I brag about OFCC accomplishments I'm not looking for your thank you or personal recognition. I'd much prefer you send me an email telling me when you are going to get involved in doing what I've been doing since 1999. We are only as effective as we make ourselves. We need the next generation of OFCC to step to the plate.
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
I would add that IMO a municipalities can have ordinances on the books that mirror the ORC as to the regulating of ownership, carrying, transportation of firearms as they would not be in conflict with the general law. That said many local ordinances have not been updated to reflect the current wording in the ORC and therefore are in conflict.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.
Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit
IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit
IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
- rickt
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
I do agree with both points.jgarvas wrote:Rick, this is a great post.
My only point would be that a city isn't authorized, its more of a "you shall post this sign". Also, not that its relevant, but if a building isn't posted and is still a government building it doesn't matter that it wasn't posted, its still prohibited. Would you agree with that conclusion?.
- rickt
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
A good point which I didn't think about.cashman966 wrote:I would add that IMO a municipalities can have ordinances on the books that mirror the ORC as to the regulating of ownership, carrying, transportation of firearms as they would not be in conflict with the general law. That said many local ordinances have not been updated to reflect the current wording in the ORC and therefore are in conflict.
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
I'd like to add that inappropriate signs are a visible indication of non-compliance but there are non-visible non-compliance issues also.
For example:
Stow has a gun store licensing law on the books that requires record keeping AND REPORTING OF ALL SALES TO THE POLICE.
This is probably why there are no gun stores in Stow.
Silver Lake, a subdivision of Stow, has an open carry ban in their code.
Please dig into your local community's legal codes and ferret out as many of these 9.68 infractions before someone ends up in court because of superceeded law.
For example:
Stow has a gun store licensing law on the books that requires record keeping AND REPORTING OF ALL SALES TO THE POLICE.
This is probably why there are no gun stores in Stow.
Silver Lake, a subdivision of Stow, has an open carry ban in their code.
Please dig into your local community's legal codes and ferret out as many of these 9.68 infractions before someone ends up in court because of superceeded law.
AlanM
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There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men. - RAH
Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo - use in that order.
If you aren't part of the solution, then you obviously weren't properly dissolved.
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
A subtle point as well - some cities have taken the easy way out. For example, some cities have a concealed weapons statute that more or less is identical to state law (except they change a few things like say 'in the city'), but with respect to places that are off limits rather than enumerate all the places they're referred directly to ORC 2923.126. This means that when the legislature updates the off limits list for CHL people like it did with SB 184, the cities do not need to make any changes because they've already incorporated the correct ORC section by reference.cashman966 wrote:I would add that IMO a municipalities can have ordinances on the books that mirror the ORC as to the regulating of ownership, carrying, transportation of firearms as they would not be in conflict with the general law. That said many local ordinances have not been updated to reflect the current wording in the ORC and therefore are in conflict.
At this point I'm not super concerned if a city's weapons statutes substantially mirror state law - that is if they seem to be close copies of 347. To me that means that the city periodically updates their laws to be in concert with state law. Although they may not have the SB 184 changes in the law yet, I'm comfortable that they will probably make it in there in due time. On the other hand for cities like Cleveland where their CCW laws still reference the old affirmative defense for handguns, they are way out of compliance and need to be reminded of that fact well before we target cities that seems to have a regular process for conforming to state law, even if that update process isn't instantaneous.
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
Just wanted to thank you for posting this information. My village had posted signs prohibiting firearms in our parks and marina. I sent an e-mail to the Mayor and city council containing the information in this post. The mayor ran it by the solicitor (attorney) and the attorney provided an opinion agreeing with your position. As a result, the signs will be changed and concealed carry will be allowed in the parks.
Much Obliged,
Steve
Much Obliged,
Steve
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
Wow! Great job. Put a location in your Profile and we'll all know where this is.
Thanks and Welcome.
Thanks and Welcome.
Abandon ye all HOPE!
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
AlanM, I did exactly as you suggested and started "digging in" to compliance.
http://www.ci.dayton.or.us/index.asp?Ty ... 9207A56%7D
2.6 DISCHARGE OF WEAPONS
2.6.1 Discharge Prohibited
No person, other than a peace officer, may fire or discharge within the City any air gun, pellet gun, BB gun, bow and arrow, cross bow or any device defined as a weapon under Oregon Revised Statutes, except in defense of human life.
2.6.2 Penalty for Violation
A violation of any provision of section 2.6 of the Dayton Municipal Code is punishable as stated in the applicable Oregon Revised Statute.
2.7 FIREWORKS
2.7.1 Oregon Fireworks Law
Oregon Fireworks Law, ORS 480.110 to 480.165 and subsequent amendments, is incorporated into Dayton Code as though fully set forth.
2.7.2 Penalty for Violation
A violation of any provision of section 2.7 of the Dayton Municipal Code is a Class B violation.
I found this while browsing Dayton's web site. I am confused as to what Oregon has to do with our discharge of weapons laws.Please dig into your local community's legal codes and ferret out as many of these 9.68 infractions before someone ends up in court because of superceeded law.
http://www.ci.dayton.or.us/index.asp?Ty ... 9207A56%7D
2.6 DISCHARGE OF WEAPONS
2.6.1 Discharge Prohibited
No person, other than a peace officer, may fire or discharge within the City any air gun, pellet gun, BB gun, bow and arrow, cross bow or any device defined as a weapon under Oregon Revised Statutes, except in defense of human life.
2.6.2 Penalty for Violation
A violation of any provision of section 2.6 of the Dayton Municipal Code is punishable as stated in the applicable Oregon Revised Statute.
2.7 FIREWORKS
2.7.1 Oregon Fireworks Law
Oregon Fireworks Law, ORS 480.110 to 480.165 and subsequent amendments, is incorporated into Dayton Code as though fully set forth.
2.7.2 Penalty for Violation
A violation of any provision of section 2.7 of the Dayton Municipal Code is a Class B violation.
"The sins of the evil do not justify restricting the rights of the good"
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
It would appear from the URL (dayton.or.us) that you've stumbled upon the ordinances for the city of Dayton, Oregon...gfrlaser wrote:AlanM, I did exactly as you suggested and started "digging in" to compliance.
I found this while browsing Dayton's web site. I am confused as to what Oregon has to do with our discharge of weapons laws.Please dig into your local community's legal codes and ferret out as many of these 9.68 infractions before someone ends up in court because of superceeded law.
http://www.ci.dayton.or.us/index.asp?Ty ... 9207A56%7D
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
Ah, that would explain it. lol
Thanks for noticing that.
Thanks for noticing that.
"The sins of the evil do not justify restricting the rights of the good"
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
No worries - I have recent experience in making just such an error while researching some OH county CHL application information and procedures. After scratching my head about some of the stuff I was reading, it dawned on me that the URL showed I was reading about a Michigan county and their CHL application process. Kinda made me feel a bit silly that I didn't catch it sooner...
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
I will look for other forums on my question as well. I had encountered a no firearms sign on an apartment building that states "You are prohibited from carrying a firearm, deadly weapon, dangerous ordinance or concealed firearm in or onto these premises even if you have a state permit!" yes it even has the exclamation point. Then it states "*pursuant to Ohio revised code and AMHA policy,...“. Then goes on to state "No person shall...." you know the rest of that part. I know that this is against the law, but I am not sure how to go about stopping them from posting this.
- JustJack
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Re: ORC 9.68 compliance vs noncompliance
Unfortunately, it's not against the law. Apartment buildings are private property and they can post 'til their heart is content. Now, what they cannot do, is prevent a renter with CHL from having a firearm, as long as the lease was signed on or after September 9, 2008. ORC 2923.126(C)(3)(b)John1022 wrote:I will look for other forums on my question as well. I had encountered a no firearms sign on an apartment building that states "You are prohibited from carrying a firearm, deadly weapon, dangerous ordinance or concealed firearm in or onto these premises even if you have a state permit!" yes it even has the exclamation point. Then it states "*pursuant to Ohio revised code and AMHA policy,...“. Then goes on to state "No person shall...." you know the rest of that part. I know that this is against the law, but I am not sure how to go about stopping them from posting this.
IANAL, YMMV, other standard disclaimers, yada, yada, yada, etc, ad nauseum, in infinitum.
"If stupidity was painful, I would be deaf from all the screaming." - Samuel A. Grim
"If stupidity was painful, I would be deaf from all the screaming." - Samuel A. Grim