Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

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Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby Morne » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:10 pm

So I have been experimenting heavily with coated bullets lately. Really like them in general. Up until now I have only run them in revolvers but this morning I decided to wring out my Springfield Armory XDS .45ACP. All my jacketed and plated rounds shot great even with the cold. The coated slugs, though, had repeated failures to feed (kept the slide from going all the way forward). Mind you, I had previously worked up this load out of a .45 ACP revolver so I knew it wasn't underpowered.

As I was pondering the cause I reached for my calipers and measured my plated bullet diameter - 0.4510". Then I checked the coated slug diameter - 0.4525! Well yeah...THAT could cause a hang up...

The cartridge overall length was well below the max. I also checked them in a Sheridan slotted gauge.

I'm really disappointed by this. My guess is that they were sized more for .45LC than for .45ACP. Even though the supplier has this 230-gr slug specifically for ACP and has others for LC. Grumble, grumble.

Guess I'll just load these for my moonclip wheelguns.

Moral of the story - if you're buying coated bullets make sure you buy from a supplier where you can choose a specific diameter. Also, check the diameter when you receive them, no matter what the supplier's label may or may not say. Just because they are "for your caliber" doesn't mean they will necessarily work in your gun.
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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby JustaShooter » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:23 pm

Standard diameter for cast bullets for .45 ACP is .452, btw.

That said, it sounds like they took their correctly-sized sized bullets and coated them without re-sizing them to the correct diameter.

Finally, I'm guessing your bullets are into the lands slightly. The XDs .45 tend to have short leade, and of course the slightly oversized diameter is probably a contributing factor, but it should be easily solved by backing off a few thousandths. You can confirm that this is the issue by smoking one of the cartridges and dropping it into the chamber and giving it a firm push, then remove it and see if the lands leave a mark in the carbon.
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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby Morne » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:39 pm

I just searched all the coated bullet suppliers. Looks like only Eggleston Munitions and The Blue Bullet offer 0.451" diameter options.

Maybe I'll try some of these fatties in my Sig P320C in .45ACP and see if they work in that. Maybe a 1911, too. :idea:
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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby Morne » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:51 pm

As I was going over my spreadsheet of handloading data I realized that I already HAVE shot these very coated bullets from my Sig P320C and they worked fine. I used a different powder and loaded them about 0.010" LONGER than the load I used in the XDS.

So yeah, I am guessing the throat on the XDS is tight/short.

Should I still play around with making these a lot shorter to see if I can get them to work in the XDS? Or should I just keep the XDS on a strict diet of plated/jacketed 0.451" diameter stuff?

I certainly have other .45ACP guns that can digest these...
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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby JustaShooter » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:28 pm

I adjusted my practice rounds to fit my XDs so that I could use the same ammo in any of my .45s. I don't like having ammo around that doesn't work in every gun chambered for that cartridge.
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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby willbird » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:19 am

What does the bullet look like ?? My XD45 and from what I read all XD HATES semiwadcutter bullets.

IMHO the barrel drops down a lot when coming out of battery, and the rim of the round being extracted strikes the square face of the semiwadcutter bullet in the round in the top of the magazine. Strikes it violently enough to totally screw stuff up. Even Lee TC shape bullets are seating depth sensitive....if you get the length just wrong (as opposed to just right) the same thing starts happening.

The whole situation kind of surprised me when I got the gun.....never would have guessed it would be a semiwadcutter hater.

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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby Morne » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:55 pm

willbird wrote:What does the bullet look like ?? My XD45 and from what I read all XD HATES semiwadcutter bullets.

IMHO the barrel drops down a lot when coming out of battery, and the rim of the round being extracted strikes the square face of the semiwadcutter bullet in the round in the top of the magazine. Strikes it violently enough to totally screw stuff up. Even Lee TC shape bullets are seating depth sensitive....if you get the length just wrong (as opposed to just right) the same thing starts happening.

The whole situation kind of surprised me when I got the gun.....never would have guessed it would be a semiwadcutter hater.

Bill

These are RN bullets. I only use wadcutters, semi or otherwise, in revolvers.

I tried seating deeper and that helped. Still, I think from now on I will reserve coated bullets for my revolvers and go plated/jacketed for semi-autos. Heck, I'll probably burn these rounds up in my moonclipped .45ACP wheelguns just to be safe.
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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby willbird » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:10 am

Some folks have re throated XD 45 acp barrels, the throat is very short and adrupt, more like a 45 degree angle than a throat. They found that cast bullets in general worked a lot better afterwards.

I have played a little with cast in my XD45 and got a little lead ahead of the chamber with bullets/lube and loads that showed no lead at all in a 1911.

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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby jeep45238 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:16 am

There's nothing wrong with the bullet diameter, coated and lead should both be ran .002" larger than the bore, while plated and jacketed should go for .001". First question - have you verified that you are 15-20 thou off the rifling lands? Second question - have you verified that your crimp is at the SAMMI spec? Third question - have you plunk tested the cartridges?

My recolection is that both XD and CZ pistols have very short throats, and that is likely the cause of your problem.
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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby willbird » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:17 am

45 acp cases have quite some variation in the case mouth thickness where the bullet seats. I had a Star loader at one time and it had a 1960's era carbide sizer die, that die would not size R-P brass enough to grip a bullet. When one hit the die you could feel the case go in with no sizing force.

I have a 1911 that a pistolsmith built up for me, it has a Clark barrel....the original chamber on those is REALLY tight, it would not tolerate any bullet much over .451. The R-P cases were the best bet. The smith usually reams them to open them up a tad, I insisted he leave mine tight to begin with at least. I later had him open it up and it runs with any bullet dia within reason now.

So thick brass in some guns might cause issues with .452 maybe................

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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby jeep45238 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:26 am

Sounds like a throat issue on that build ;)
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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby willbird » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:56 am

jeep45238 wrote:Sounds like a throat issue on that build ;)


Throat and chamber both....Clark probably figured the smith fitting the barrel would adjust things to their liking. It probably would have been just fine with strictly jacketed bullets ...but that was never my intention from day 1. Setup that way I did shoot some 5 shot groups from Ransom rest at 50 yards that were 1.25" with cast bullets. It really did not seem to lose any accuracy when we removed a few .001 and made the chamber bigger. The smith has a variety of 45 acp reamers that he uses depending on the intended purpose of the gun. Modified it runs anything..........


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Re: Problem with coated .45ACP bullets

Postby markshere2 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:28 pm

I had a similar issue. My cast boolits would load and shoot fine from my Ruger and Hi point 45s.

I got a 1911 and the darn things would not chamber for me.

Solution: run the loaded round through a Lee Factory crimp die.

Now all my loaded rounds work in all my guns.
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